AdamG Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 Hi all, i am just about done a forge press (air/hydraulic, for cost reasons) and have made good progress so far I think. See: I have to finish the return springs and the foot controls but it's starting to take shape. I think I over-built by 10x, especially for an air jack. Also, I wonder about the middle h bar not staying perfectly level. Any suggestions are welcome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamG Posted May 25, 2017 Author Share Posted May 25, 2017 Hey, given that this is pretty beefy, maybe it could be converted to hydraulic later... maybe two small cylinders. What do you think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamG Posted May 25, 2017 Author Share Posted May 25, 2017 Would this make for a decent press? https://www.princessauto.com/en/detail/3-hp-ac-2-stage-multifunction-hydraulic-power-unit/A-p8677247e (it's 6 gal/min and 1 gal/min pump speed). I did not build this thing for the dimensions of most hydraulic cylinders, and there is no mechanism to keep the H bar well aligned... it's loosely fit against the inside two faces of the vertical supports. I might be able to shim that up with HDPE. But in any case, I would need short cylinders... maybe 6-8" stroke with a length of 10" or so. I was intimidated by the risks of hydraulics, but now that I have this structure, it might make better sense! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John in Oly, WA Posted May 25, 2017 Share Posted May 25, 2017 15 hours ago, AdamG said: Would this make for a decent press? Not so much in my opinion. I used an 11/3.4gpm 2-stage pump like this one - http://www.surpluscenter.com/Hydraulics/Hydraulic-Pumps/2-Stage-Log-Splitter-Pumps/11-GPM-2-STAGE-HYD-PUMP-9-7503-11.axd - powered by a 5hp motor for my press. Would be nice if my press were a little faster. How fast does your ram move? Fast is important so you don't lose heat in the metal as you're waiting for the press to cycle. Also you want the ram to be very stable in it's guides. You don't want it to be able to misalign as pressure is applied. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teenylittlemetalguy Posted May 25, 2017 Share Posted May 25, 2017 2 hours ago, John in Oly, WA said: Not so much in my opinion. I used an 11/3.4gpm 2-stage pump like this one - http://www.surpluscenter.com/Hydraulics/Hydraulic-Pumps/2-Stage-Log-Splitter-Pumps/11-GPM-2-STAGE-HYD-PUMP-9-7503-11.axd - powered by a 5hp motor for my press. Would be nice if my press were a little faster. How fast does your ram move? Fast is important so you don't lose heat in the metal as you're waiting for the press to cycle. Also you want the ram to be very stable in it's guides. You don't want it to be able to misalign as pressure is applied. John, what size cylinder are you running with it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John in Oly, WA Posted May 25, 2017 Share Posted May 25, 2017 I have a 5" cylinder with an 8" stroke. You can see a few pics of it in this thread https://www.iforgeiron.com/topic/45929-hydraulic-forge-press-geometry/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamG Posted May 28, 2017 Author Share Posted May 28, 2017 Bit of an update... if one spring is not strong enough, just use more springs! I didnt get pictures of it all, but I added four springs per side to lift the bar and it works. Might need to weld on better rings for attachment points. This thing is likely to be slow and limited in its use, but if I can at least get some mechanical help piercing hammer eyes and fullering etc, it might serve a purpose. If I make a hydraulic press one day I will try to make the dies and die plates the same so I can repurpose them. This frame looks too short for the shortest hydraulic cylinders I can find. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 no insult intended, but trusting those welds to pressure is Insane, have you got it plotted out where thing will go in failure ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 1 minute ago, Steve Sells said: no insult intended, but trusting those welds to pressure is Insane, have you got it plotted out where thing will go in failure ? Huh? What welds Steve? I don't see ANY welds. Chickens would be embarrassed to leave those tracks. I wouldn't worry too much about flying debris I don't think it'll hold together long enough to build that much force. I just hope he doesn't have a foot under it. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamG Posted May 28, 2017 Author Share Posted May 28, 2017 Thanks for the feedback... I agree that most of what's welded there is crap. It turns out all I could get was 110A on my AC buzz box. I thought I had 170 but that's for some crazy German voltage or 3 phase. I think I managed to get a reasonable 6011 root pass (3/32") but all of the 7018 was way too cold and was sticking like heck so I ran tracks all over filling in voids. Nasty. I'll have to grind it back and weld this up at a friend's place. By the way, can you TIG over a mess like that to burn it all in? I'm looking at those Everlast multi units. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGGUNDOCTOR Posted May 28, 2017 Share Posted May 28, 2017 As much as I like tig, I would say no. Grind it out, and lay a good bead with the 7018 on reverse polarity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamG Posted June 3, 2017 Author Share Posted June 3, 2017 Thanks for the input guys. I've decided that calling this exercise a root canal would be an insult to dentistry. I can also say that DC reverse polarity with enough Amps makes a world of difference! Oh, and using name brand electrodes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted June 3, 2017 Share Posted June 3, 2017 Those look a lot better. When you say "name brand" electrode you DID tell the guy at the welding supply you have an AC buzz box. YES? It's been too many years, I don't recall but there are AC equivalents to 7018. 7018 is a DC welding rod and while you CAN run a decent bead it's not what it should be. The "Lo Hy Jet" rods like the 70xx series are slow freeze and make for beautiful beads. They flow smooth, the edges wet beautifully but it's easy to cold lap a side and still have a good looking bead and running DC rod on AC is a better way to cold lap joints. You have plenty of power in your buzz box if you match the rod to it I've put many hours in on a Lincoln "tombstone" welder. They're excellent machines. Remember you want good rather than pretty welds. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamG Posted June 3, 2017 Author Share Posted June 3, 2017 Looking better. Just need the controls now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdriack Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 Most places near me like Lowes or Tractor Supply sell 7018AC rods that are rated for DC and AC. If you want a DC only rod - you actually have to search it out at a welding supply store. I've had good luck with 7018AC rods for most of my bigger projects (I use mig for anything less than 1/4"). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 7018 is AC DC now? Wow, I've been out of the loop a long time. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamG Posted June 6, 2017 Author Share Posted June 6, 2017 I officially can't wait to get a new welder. I tacked on a couple of bits with my 6011 yesterday and it was painful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave51B Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 As a tombstone user, it was suggested to me a few years back to try 7014 welding rods. I tried some and had good success. I just repair farm stuff and build a few things. Works for me..... Any input from you welding guys? Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tubalcain2 Posted June 6, 2017 Share Posted June 6, 2017 i'm a newby to welding, but i have found 6011 and standard low-hi (7018) to work just fine for me. i just do mild steel and haven't done anything that requires more yet. i run an AC/DC Lincoln 225. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaughnT Posted July 30, 2017 Share Posted July 30, 2017 The Tractor Supply near me sells 7014 rods for a few bucks cheaper than their 7018 rods, so I picked some up test. I don't know why they worked so much better than the 7018s I normally use, but they were pretty dang dreamy. I'm just a hobby welder on the best of days, but those 14's made me look almost competent! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave51B Posted July 30, 2017 Share Posted July 30, 2017 1 hour ago, VaughnT said: The Tractor Supply near me sells 7014 rods for a few bucks cheaper than their 7018 rods, so I picked some up test. I don't know why they worked so much better than the 7018s I normally use, but they were pretty dang dreamy. I'm just a hobby welder on the best of days, but those 14's made me look almost competent! Yip, Vaughn T.....that's pretty much what I found. Shoot, I have even picked up 1/16" rods to give the mig a rest on small stuff. I hope one of the techy guys chimes in to give us a clue of what we're dealing with. Thanks for the feedback Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamG Posted August 11, 2017 Author Share Posted August 11, 2017 Hi all, Any suggestions on how to get an air/hydraulic jack to pack some punch? This seems gutless! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 Air over hydraulic is pretty much what it is. Over pressuring them isn't safe so I say don't do it. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamG Posted August 11, 2017 Author Share Posted August 11, 2017 I won't try to overpressure anything... I was just thinking that there might be air in the hydraulic cylinder inside the jack or something. If it sucks, it sucks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the iron dwarf Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 if it is faulty take it back to where you got it from if you bought it new recently, air over is never a good idea for forging as they are so slow and have no control. for each stroke it fully retracts, my press only goes as far as I want in either direction to within about 100th of an inch so all the time yours is moving for a single stroke mine has done several it does not slow down noticeably when the tool touches the stock, it keeps going until it either reaches the set limit on the relief valve or the limit switch stops it ( or I take my foot off the switch, but at a stroke a second or more it is fast to control on the foot switch ). overall height of my press is IIRC about 24" and I could have bought a shorter cylinder if I wanted. I have quick change bottom tools Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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