AdamG

If I ever say I'm going to build it instead...

33 posts in this topic

Hi all,

i am just about done a forge press (air/hydraulic, for cost reasons) and have made good progress so far I think.  See:

I have to finish the return springs and the foot controls but it's starting to take shape.  I think I over-built by 10x, especially for an air jack.  Also, I wonder about the middle h bar not staying perfectly level.

Any suggestions are welcome. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey, given that this is pretty beefy, maybe it could be converted to hydraulic later... maybe two small cylinders.  What do you think?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Would this make for a decent press?

https://www.princessauto.com/en/detail/3-hp-ac-2-stage-multifunction-hydraulic-power-unit/A-p8677247e (it's 6 gal/min and 1 gal/min pump speed).

I did not build this thing for the dimensions of most hydraulic cylinders, and there is no mechanism to keep the H bar well aligned... it's loosely fit against the inside two faces of the vertical supports.  I might be able to shim that up with HDPE.  But in any case, I would need short cylinders... maybe 6-8" stroke with a length of 10" or so.  I was intimidated by the risks of hydraulics, but now that I have this structure, it might make better sense!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, AdamG said:

Would this make for a decent press?

Not so much in my opinion. I used an 11/3.4gpm 2-stage pump like this one - http://www.surpluscenter.com/Hydraulics/Hydraulic-Pumps/2-Stage-Log-Splitter-Pumps/11-GPM-2-STAGE-HYD-PUMP-9-7503-11.axd - powered by a 5hp motor for my press. Would be nice if my press were a little faster.

How fast does your ram move? Fast is important so you don't lose heat in the metal as you're waiting for the press to cycle. Also you want the ram to be very stable in it's guides. You don't want it to be able to misalign as pressure is applied.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, John in Oly, WA said:

Not so much in my opinion. I used an 11/3.4gpm 2-stage pump like this one - http://www.surpluscenter.com/Hydraulics/Hydraulic-Pumps/2-Stage-Log-Splitter-Pumps/11-GPM-2-STAGE-HYD-PUMP-9-7503-11.axd - powered by a 5hp motor for my press. Would be nice if my press were a little faster.

How fast does your ram move? Fast is important so you don't lose heat in the metal as you're waiting for the press to cycle. Also you want the ram to be very stable in it's guides. You don't want it to be able to misalign as pressure is applied.

John, what size cylinder are you running with it? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bit of an update... if one spring is not strong enough, just use more springs!  

 

I didnt get pictures of it all, but I added four springs per side to lift the bar and it works.  Might need to weld on better rings for attachment points.

This thing is likely to be slow and limited in its use, but if I can at least get some mechanical help piercing hammer eyes and fullering etc, it might serve a purpose.  

If I make a hydraulic press one day I will try to make the dies and die plates the same so I can repurpose them.  This frame looks too short for the shortest hydraulic cylinders I can find.

 

IMG_2271.JPG

IMG_2279.JPG

IMG_2280.JPG

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

no insult intended, but trusting those welds to pressure is Insane, have you got it plotted out where thing will go in failure ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Steve Sells said:

no insult intended, but trusting those welds to pressure is Insane, have you got it plotted out where thing will go in failure ?

Huh? What welds Steve? I don't see ANY welds. Chickens would be embarrassed to leave those tracks. I wouldn't worry too much about flying debris I don't think it'll hold together long enough to build that much force. I just hope he doesn't have a foot under it.

Frosty The Lucky.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Looks like a lot of the pieces are tacked in place, probably needs finish welding !

It will be interesting to see it work.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the feedback... I agree that most of what's welded there is crap.  It turns out all I could get was 110A on my AC buzz box.  I thought I had 170 but that's for some crazy German voltage or 3 phase.  I think I managed to get a reasonable 6011 root pass (3/32") but all of the 7018 was way too cold and was sticking like heck so I ran tracks all over filling in voids.  Nasty.  I'll have to grind it back and weld this up at a friend's place.

By the way, can you TIG over a mess like that to burn it all in?  I'm looking at those Everlast multi units.  

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As much as I like tig, I would say no. Grind it out, and lay a good bead with the 7018 on reverse polarity.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the input guys.  I've decided that calling this exercise a root canal would be an insult to dentistry.

I can also say that DC reverse polarity with enough Amps makes a world of difference!

IMG_2305.JPG

IMG_2306.JPG

IMG_2307.JPG

Oh, and using name brand electrodes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Those look a lot better. When you say "name brand" electrode you DID tell the guy at the welding supply you have an AC buzz box. YES? It's been too many years, I don't recall but there are AC equivalents to 7018.

7018 is a DC welding rod and while you CAN run a decent bead it's not what it should be. The "Lo Hy Jet" rods like the 70xx series are slow freeze and make for beautiful beads. They flow smooth, the edges wet beautifully but it's easy to cold lap a side and still have a good looking bead and running DC rod on AC is a better way to cold lap joints.

You have plenty of power in your buzz box if you match the rod to it I've put many hours in on a Lincoln "tombstone" welder. They're excellent machines. Remember you want good rather than pretty welds.

Frosty The Lucky.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Looking better.  Just need the controls now.  

IMG_2309.JPG

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Most places near me like Lowes or Tractor Supply sell 7018AC rods that are rated for DC and AC. If you want a DC only rod - you actually have to search it out at a welding supply store. I've had good luck with 7018AC rods for most of my bigger projects (I use mig for anything less than 1/4").

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

7018 is AC DC now? Wow, I've been out of the loop a long time.

Frosty The Lucky.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I officially can't wait to get a new welder.  I tacked on a couple of bits with my 6011 yesterday and it was painful.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 As a tombstone user, it was suggested to me a few years back to try 7014 welding rods. I tried some and had good success. I just repair farm stuff and build a few things. Works for me..... Any input from you welding guys?              Dave

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i'm a newby to welding, but i have found 6011 and standard low-hi (7018) to work just fine for me. i just do mild steel and haven't done anything that requires more yet. i run an AC/DC Lincoln 225.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Tractor Supply near me sells 7014 rods for a few bucks cheaper than their 7018 rods, so I picked some up test.  I don't know why they worked so much better than the 7018s I normally use, but they were pretty dang dreamy.  I'm just a hobby welder on the best of days, but those 14's made me look almost competent! ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, VaughnT said:

The Tractor Supply near me sells 7014 rods for a few bucks cheaper than their 7018 rods, so I picked some up test.  I don't know why they worked so much better than the 7018s I normally use, but they were pretty dang dreamy.  I'm just a hobby welder on the best of days, but those 14's made me look almost competent! ;)

 Yip, Vaughn T.....that's pretty much what I found. Shoot, I have even picked up 1/16" rods to give the mig a rest on small stuff. I hope one of the techy guys chimes in to give us a clue of what we're dealing with.     Thanks for the feedback             Dave

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi all,

Any suggestions on how to get an air/hydraulic jack to pack some punch?  This seems gutless!

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Air over hydraulic is pretty much what it is. Over pressuring them isn't safe so I say don't do it.

Frosty The Lucky.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I won't try to overpressure anything... I was just thinking that there might be air in the hydraulic cylinder inside the jack or something.  If it sucks, it sucks!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now