HEAP of JEEP Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 As a 46 year old newb to this, I'm trying to wrap my head around something... I know I run in to this in my "real" life, but for some reason, I was really hoping that there would be some better constants in blacksmithing... but alas, I seem to be plagued with reality, even in my times of escape. I have been trying to make some patterned steel knives... for the joy of doing it, and for some holiday gifts. After completing my first one, I was geeked. I mean, I see a lot of room to improve, but just the fact that I got steel to stick together in my own forge, on my own anvil, with the strength of my own arm and hammer... I could not have been happier. I learned a lot in the first attempt, and jumped in to the second, which is going to be a gift for my brother. I am using a combination of some old Jeep leaf springs, and some mild steel I have lying around in abundance. On my first one, I knew it would never get any real use, so wasn't worried about how the combination would hold an edge or anything... but on this one, I expect my brother to put it through it's paces. So for knife two, I am doing two billets of twisted damascus, and I am going to laminate a layer of the leaf spring in the middle for the cutting edge. The day after I got the first knife completed, I started in on the billets for knife number two. Got the first one done in pretty good time. The next day, I'm out at the forge, and started off the day making a candle holder for another gift. It wasn't my first, and I thought I could whip it out in an hour and move on to the second billet. But it fought me every step of the way. No matter what I did, I couldn't get the forge to burn very hot, and then when I finally did get it behaving, it seemed like every hammer hit was just a bit off the mark, or wasn't having the intended affect. I pushed through it, got the candle holder done, shut down the forge, and went in to watch some football. After I watched my beloved Lion's loose again, I went back out, cleaned out the forge, and figured things would go better with the billet, because I really do have a lot of fun making them. Don't know why, but there is just something very fulfilling to me about taking a whole bunch of steel pieces and convincing it to form one solid piece. Fired up the forge, and after cleaning, it was behaving quite a bit better. SO to make the second billet match the first, I had to get two folds in, then give it a twist, and one more fold. This would net me 56 layers, plus the twist... not a huge layer count, but I figure its plenty for someone doing it by hand. Initial weld goes okay... but again, just like earlier in the day, it seems like it is fighting me. Get it drawn out and first fold. That went pretty smoothly, and with my improved hammer technique (thanks to the advice on this forum), it seems like drawing it out is going a lot quicker. Second fold time, once again, everything seems to be fighting me... but I manage to get the surface clean, get it folded, up to welding temp, and go to set the weld, I can tell something just doesn't feel right. I usually give it two or three more welding heats, so I'm thinking whatever the issue is, I'll be able to sort out in the next heat. Brush it clean, re-flux, back up to welding temp, and this time it feels like the weld sets. One more heat to make sure and after this one, I give it a light tap on the side to see if any area is going to come apart, and the whole back quarter of the billet comes free.... Well XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX I quickly cleaned it the best I could, re-flux, back to welding heat, but from everything I've read, its probably to late, and I start making contingency plans. Since this billet got to shape so much faster than the first, I haven't lost as much steel to scale, so I'm thinking I can salvage the 3/4's of it that are solid and I decided to keep going with it. As I drew it out, I wasn't even that concerned with the part that didn't weld... I've got it all planned out, so full speed ahead. I got it drawn out, and started the twist... and low and behold, its not just the back 1/4 of the billet.... that last weld came apart over 2/3 to 3/4 of the thing, and now, with the twist, it looks like some kind of mid-evil corkscrew/ torture device. At this point, its beyond hope, and I threw it in to the scrap bucket, having wasted en entire afternoon/evening. Fast forward to last night... Watched the Lion's lose again, then went out to work on a new second billet. Got the metal prepped, fired up the forge, and right away I can tell it is going to be a good day. The forge fired right up, burned nice and hot, the welds went perfectly. I ended up calling it a night right before the twist, just because I had to work in the morning, but as I'm lying there in bed last night, I kept trying to figure out why there should have been such a night and day difference between these two particular days. Weather conditions were about the same, but even if they weren't, I can't see it affecting the way the forge is behaving... I did just dress my hammers (thanks again to the forum), but that shouldn't have had that much of an effect on whether my welds held or not, or whether I could hit where I was aiming. I don't know... it just seemed like the blacksmith gods were fighting me one day, then blessing me on a different day. Did I inadvertently make some required sacrifice between then and now that I'm not aware of? I hoping all of you experienced folks will tell me that everyone has days like that, and that its worth it to fight through, or better to give it up for the day and come back tomorrow. Maybe I'm looking for to much meaning in all of it. Maybe I need to kneel before my anvil and sacrifice a piece of aluminum... Just trying to wrap my head around it all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daswulf Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 I know I'm not really experienced but I'll have days where nothing goes right and everything I try seems to fail, and others where everything seems right and goes smoothly. Then there's the times where I can't think of anything to make or do and others where my head is spinning with ideas and there isn't enough time in an evening I think it's just in the stars Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcostello Posted December 14, 2015 Share Posted December 14, 2015 I don't have much experience so take it for what it's worth, the only common denominator I see in Your posts that might need to change is..............quit watching the Lions. You already know they are going to lose anyway. Spend the time taking Your frustrations out easily on red hot steel. Practice wins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WL smith Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 This is why I gave up on watching football decades ago! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ridgewayforge Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 Yeah, bad days happen. If we're frustrated, tired, etc, we can transfer that to our work. Sometimes its best to go hit a punching bag before we hammer out steel, or to take a long walk to calm the mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThorsHammer82 Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 10 hours ago, Daswulf said: I know I'm not really experienced but I'll have days where nothing goes right and everything I try seems to fail, and others where everything seems right and goes smoothly. Then there's the times where I can't think of anything to make or do and others where my head is spinning with ideas and there isn't enough time in an evening I think it's just in the stars write stuff down so that on the days you can't think of something you can just go to your list and start checking things off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironwolfforgeca Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 I like when things go wrong first thing I KNOW is Murphy is here !!! again Now what do I need to do to get rid of Murphy & More important WHAT is he showing me I an MISSING ? tooling from & so on ? this also go for my day job welder fab guy if you work for youre self you learn !!!!!!!!!! when I cant take it anymore I put a chunk of steel under the PH & all is GOOD no Idea what chunk will be ? but I will learn from it PS someday there WILL be a desk top computer or smart Ph under the hammer !!! A hate & love thing PS # 2 steel does that steel does you cant change that ! But you can learn to fallow it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 Aw, these guys are so kind. They're just trying to cheer you up, you're the only guy I've ever heard of who had a bad day at the anvil. Did you keep notes? If you document what you do, materials, the conditions, etc. you'll be able to review the day. Sure it isn't necessarily give you the answer but it's data and collect enough and it will. You might have had one bad piece of coal in the fire poisoning the welds. No, don't ask me what will poison forge welds I don't know. I generally run a gas forge and have the techniques pretty well dialed in. I'm a "match and make the join surfaces as shiny as possible kind of guy." Oh yeah, I usually flux before heating the joint to minimize oxidization as much as possible. I've even dissolved borax in water to get it to stick to the steel. Oh, flux isn't glue, it's only purpose is to keep oxygen from contacting the steel. If you need enough to carry scale and other contaminants out of the joint they it's not clean enough. A light coat is plenty. Do a search here for "Alaska Flux" one of our guys here has come up with a home brew flux that works a treat. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike-hr Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 My best advice would be, 'listen to the fire'. When you are cranking the blower, the fire should have a noticeable roar. If it doesn't, stick the pokey tool to the bottom of the fire while cranking, and give it a slight lift. If it doesn't roar then, clean it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 Some days you just have to know when to walk away.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gote Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 What about size of coal. Since the burning goes on on the surface of the coal, the smaller the pieces, the more heat generated on the surface. For the same reason there tends to be less oxygen that burns the steel and oxidizes the surface. We all have our bad days - regardless of what we do - but usually there is an unnoticed factor hat gives the trouble. When it is found, "luck" suddenly appears. Sometimes the factor is haste. Wayne's advice is good. If you walk away you might figure out what went wrong. I was once given the advice when a car would not start. "Walk one turn clockwise around the car and kick every tyre. then do it counter clockwise." It usually works - at least with old fashioned vhicles with carburettors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Comtois Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 My standard reply to "Whatcha makin'?" is "Mistakes." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borntoolate Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 this is mostly unrelated but I feel for ya. I recently had a water line fail under my house. The crawl space gives a little over 12" of room to work. I found while under the house that nothing went right... to the point of ridiculous! Second. I found that once I got under the house that that I apparently became stupid and could do nothing right once I got past all the ridiculous stuff. Anyway, at least you don't have to crawl in and out 40 times to deal with some new unexpected / stupid mistake while forging. I wish I had been screwing up at my forge. Next time... A plummer.... maybe Maybe its like a bad day fishing is better than a good day at work. Or a bad day at the forge is better than... And a bad day in general is better than working under a house! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted December 16, 2015 Share Posted December 16, 2015 15 minutes ago, Borntoolate said: Snippage And a bad day in general is better than working under a house! Quoting the Wicked Witch of the East? Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wroughton Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 There's probably a joke in there for jeep guys too. Was it an AMC leaf spring you used for your material? A Willys leaf spring probably would have got up on the anvil and forged itself together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HEAP of JEEP Posted December 23, 2015 Author Share Posted December 23, 2015 1 hour ago, Wroughton said: There's probably a joke in there for jeep guys too. Was it an AMC leaf spring you used for your material? A Willys leaf spring probably would have got up on the anvil and forged itself together. Amen to that! No its actually from '96 so not even AMC... Chrysler.... yeah.... that might explain everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 Making Your First Forge Weld Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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