E.C.P. Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 I recently sold this very early Fisher 74-pound anvil on eBay to a buyer in West Virginia. The buyer received it just as it was described and pictured but decided they wanted to return it so they claimed that it was a fake, counterfeit, or reproduction so that eBay would force a refund. It is obviously not a fake, counterfeit, or reproduction, especially since no one has ever made one. The buyer is just stupid or had buyers remorse and couldn't think of any other way then to lie to force a refund. Doesn't he know Fisher anvils do not ring, ever! I even presented documentation along with contacting Josh Kavett to get his stamp of approval on its authenticity but the buyer still claimed it was fake and eBay sided with him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Cochran Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 That's a fine lookin anvil I'd love to have in my possession. People can be so stupid sometimes. I hope you can find a new and more knowledgable buyer that won't give you grief. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 That's a serious bummer, sorry to hear it.Present your cites and documentation of authenticity to E-bay and have any negatives to your account retracted and or expunged. You do have the anvil back in possession yes?I really doubt they are playing a game, buyer's remorse maybe or maybe just didn't know what to expect. E-bay will almost always take the buyer's side, there are far more dishonest sellers than buyers. E-bay doesn't have experts enough to vet everything.If the "buyer" doesn't return it in promptly undamaged condition then you can take the purchase agreement, their claims of fraud, the refund judgement and demand and present it to the prosecutor as wire fraud and theft on their part.I think that's a stretch but you never know.Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 Yep, present your evedence and demand (polightly at first) that Ebay expunge any bad reports, you acted in good faith. But as Jerry said, If the "buyer" hasn't returned it, get him, its a federal crime Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judson Yaggy Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 (edited) The silver spray paint or sandblasting is a bummer but as long as it passes the bounce test... nothing wrong with that anvil.Ebay is a giant corporation. Expecting them to understand the nuances of anvil design or even spend the time to figure out a minor problem of any sort is probably spitting into the wind. Edited July 9, 2015 by Judson Yaggy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E.C.P. Posted July 9, 2015 Author Share Posted July 9, 2015 He did return it after I fought with eBay to have him do so but I lost a couple hundred dollars in the process with shipping and selling fees since the buyer said it was fake, counterfeit, or reproduction. EBay claims that fake or counterfeit items need not be returned to seller even though a full refund takes place and they state that the buyer should discard or destroy the item and once an item is considered fake or counterfeit seller fees do not have to be returned to seller. The guy knew exactly how to work the system, he would never respond to my messages through eBay and he knew a fake, counterfeit, or reproduction case would work to get a refund. Probably hoped it wouldn't have to be returned too.No paint or sandblast. Fine media cleanse and completely bare metal ready to finish any way someone wants. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy k Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 Sorry but you should have never touched the surface finish/patina. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 Sounds like an attempted fruad to me, and I would present it to Ebay that way, as it is obviusly not a countefit, and they are complaisent in assisting in his attempted fraud. You should atleast get your sellers fees refunded and any black mark expunged. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 I think you could get a notarized affidavit of authenticity from the curator of the Fisher museum and owner of the Fisher rights IIRC and take the buyer to small claims court. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGGUNDOCTOR Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 Small claims may be a problem. I need to sue a guy over some earnest money of mine that he has tied up. To sue him, I have to go to the county he lives in. I would get your evidence together, present your case to EBay, and try to get your shipping, and fees reimbursed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 Right now you're out shipping and selling fees. Ebay disregarded legitimate authentication documents. Sue THEM, they have the deeper pockets anyway. I'd go for punitive damages for keeping their fee.Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 IForgeIron does not provide legal advice.If you want legal advice, consult legal counsel. THEY can inform you of your rights and options. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSW Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 (edited) Sorry to hear this. I'm glad you managed to get the anvil back. I know a couple of guys who used to do a lot of business with Ebay but now won't touch them because they have been burned too many times the way you have. Edited July 9, 2015 by DSW Stupid forbidden error Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ausfire Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 I feel your pain. I had problems with eBay too, but it was the other way round; I was the buyer. Bought a lovely anvil and arranged payment, shipping, everything. Then the guy backs out and sells it to a walk-up buyer with a pick-up truck, so he didn't have to pallet it.So I understand how you feel. Hope things can be resolved in your favour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WayneCoeArtistBlacksmith Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 I had a similar problem with PayPal, therefore, don't do business with them anymore. Ebay owns PayPal same mentality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E.C.P. Posted July 9, 2015 Author Share Posted July 9, 2015 Sorry but you should have never touched the surface finish/patina.I had to clean it in order to sell it. It was covered in dirt and some old blackish paint including a large splash or drip of white paint when I got it. I couldn't even tell the condition prior to clean it. Besides I have to clean almost all my anvils because that's how most people want them, clean and ready to use or if they want wire wheel to a shine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E.C.P. Posted July 9, 2015 Author Share Posted July 9, 2015 IForgeIron does not provide legal advice.If you want legal advice, consult legal counsel. THEY can inform you of your rights and options.I don't want anyone to get in trouble for offering their legal opinions. I am hoping that other people will reinforce its authenticity and see if other people have had a similar or know of a similar situation. I know exactly what the anvil is and that it is authentic but even so I contacted Josh Kavett owner of the Fisher-Norris Anvil Museum right after this unfolded, sent him pictures of the anvil, and he also confirmed its authenticity, there are no fake, counterfeit, or reproductions out there, along with reafirming that no Fisher anvils ever did or ever will ring. Even with my knowledge of them and Josh's overwhelming knowledge of them it didn't seem to help when it came to one guy making up a lie about an item. My hope is that with attention brought to this anvil and matters like this it will keep people informed and honest and not allow it to happen to someone else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpankySmith Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 This is just infuriating to read. Man, I try hard to maintain some faith in humanity then I read something like this.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 This is just infuriating to read. Man, I try hard to maintain some faith in humanity then I read something like this....You need a dog Darlin, they tend to soothe all the ungoodness humans are capable of automatically, just by being so enthusiastically happy you're home.I'd attribute the refusal of the "buyer" to ignorance rather than malice. Said person's entire knowledge base is probably based in World Of Warcraft and, "everybody knows," or "It's a well known fact," etc. etc. Pick your favorite red flag for imagined knowledge catch phrase. I've had people tell me quieting my anvils made them worse anvils.You can't argue with ignorance that's convinced of it's expertise. Face to face sales only for me. Period.Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E.C.P. Posted July 9, 2015 Author Share Posted July 9, 2015 The buyer is an older guy not a young kid. The buyer claimed to eBay in a phone call they made to him because he wouldn't respond to them or me through email, that he is an "anvil expert" and that it is a fake, counterfeit, or reproduction because as they put it to me "he knows so". He bought the anvil based on twelve great clear pictures and a perfect, long, and fully detailed description and the anvil is exactly as it appears and as it was described. An eBay representative told me he probably had buyers remorse and needed a way to get his money back and used a fraudulent claim to do so possibly to purchase another item. But even so they take the word of the buyer. Two out of every three anvils I sell are in person but I do also ship many all around the country and I have never had one problem in all the years of doing so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 Sounds like you've had outstanding luck so far. I'd still try to stick Ebay with their fees, you have legitimate authentication, not gum flappings.I know how it smarts when a long run of good hits a pothole like this. Just laugh at the fool for missing out on such a great piece of history. He deserves himself.Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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