Origin of the word Upsetting?

[stevenha]

I'm a beginner hobby blacksmith, and several times I've forgotten the word "upsetting" or "upset"  when I want to make a  thicker bulge.  Can someone who knows, explain the origin of that word, so it 'makes sense' somehow?  Or, tell a cute made-up story that explains it.

[ThomasPowers]

Anybody got the complete OED?

[Chinobi]

I vote for a shortened description of the emotions that the process evokes in the practitioner :)

[Crazy Ivan]

I'm no linguistics major but, i would assume it is called that because you are forging the piece on end and striking down on it, SETTING the piece in an UP and down angle before striking.

-Crazy Ivan

[Jim Coke]

Greetings Steve, It's what happens to me when the metal does not want to bulge where I want it to. Very uppsetting LOL Forge in and make beautiful things Jim

[anvil]

yup, just like its opposite, when things in life seem to take forever, it becomes a rather long. drawn. out. experience. ;)

the real question to both these terms is just what came first, the chicken or the egg.

[Metalsmith21]

When you "upset" the end of the metal you change the flow of the metal by upsetting flow that it orignaly had.

[basher]

I would imagine it has something to do with the action of setting material back up into the bar...

[Geoff Keyes]

I suspect that the original term was not English.  We'd need to know what the term is in Greek/Aramaic or some other early language.  Latin might be good enough, since a fair bit of English is Latin based.

 

For instance, in brewing we use the term sparge, which in turn comes from the French espargier, which comes from the Latin spargere to sprinkle.   Smithing is nearly as old as brewing and so the language is going to be old as well.

 

Geoff

[divermike]

I believe it was discovered a long time ago, it involved a woman coming into the forbidden area, and the smith needing to make a point, he slammed the end of a hot piece on the anvil, and thus the discovery was made, and the forbidden zone has been inviolate ever since!

[rockstar.esq]

Good question.  Especially when there are other options that come to mind like gathering, stunting, or shortening.

[Crazy Ivan]

Divermike, as funny as that may sound, I want to remind you that there are female smiths out there that may not like that too much. If any female smiths took that to heart, your neck might get "upset" haha. But in all seriousness, I personally don't like to see gender bias, even if it is meant to be a light hearted joke.

-Crazy Ivan

[Crazy Ivan]

Divermike, as funny as that may sound, I want to remind you that there are female smiths out there that may not like that too much. If any female smiths took that to heart, your neck might get "upset" haha. But in all seriousness, I personally don't like to see gender bias, even if it is meant to be a light hearted joke.

-Crazy Ivan

[yahoo2]

the modern language translation would be "to set up" meaning preparation beforehand or get ready. but as with most things it is never that simple, we set rivets to fix or fasten them so I guess upset "before set" is forming the head of the rivet.

[John B]

One term used was "jumping up" for this process, which then probably became "upsetting",  opposite to drawing down.

[ThomasPowers]

Waiting on the OED, upset came from german IIRC; so latin and greek not that big a help.

[Frosty]

Welcome aboard Steven, glad to have you. If you'll put your general location in the header we won't have to keep asking you. Getting together with an experienced smith will flatten the learning curve a LOT and if folk don't know you're in the neighborhood . . .

 

Describing how you feel trying to get the process to do what you want is my first guess but seeing as it's already been mentioned I won't make up an amusing story.

 

Breaking the term down you get Set and Up. In general setting at the anvil refers to starting a process so there's a definite isolating shape, element, etc. For instance setting a shoulder is often done on a radiused edge though a butcher makes cleaner sets. So upsetting means you're setting the iron/steel larger than it was, the dimension is going UP.

 

That's just MY take and heck I'm questioning it myself while I type so it means whatever.

 

Another FINE blacksmith's axiom you're running into now goes thusly. Ask two blacksmiths a question and get three (or more) answers.

 

Frosty The Lucky.

[Stefflus]

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=upset&allowed_in_frame=0

"mid-15c., "to set up, fix," from up + set (v.). Cf. Middle Dutch opsetten, German aufsetzen. Modern sense of "overturn, capsize" (1803) is that of obsolete overset. Meaning "to throw into mental discomposure" is from 1805. The noun sense of "overturning of a vehicle or boat" is recorded from 1804."

 

To me it makes sense as "setting up what we need for later".

 

In my language it's "Stuke", which originally meant "being stiff", and is related to "Stokk"(log), and thereby also english "Stock" (as in: "you need more stock if you wanna make that")

[thingmaker3]

From an old article by S. L. Semiatin and G. D. Lahoti:

"...the simplest kind of forging opreration, which is known as upsetting from an old usage of "upset" in the sense of "beat back."

[swedefiddle]

Good Morning,

 

Think about taking clay or Play-dough and pushing it together to make it bigger.

Now do the same thing with hot metal.

If it doesn't work exactly how you wish it to, You become UPSET!!!!!!

 

Ain't Langgwich One-der-Full!!  :) :)

 

If you are making it smaller, you are making it longer, like Toffee. You are Drawing it out (without a pencil & paper).

If you are making it shorter and fatter, you are getting UPSET!! (the material too)

 

Neil

[Frank Turley]

Horseshoers "bump it."

[Frank Turley]

I heard one Scottish blacksmith say that he "staved 'em up."