Ideal welding Rod for Anvil, I think i found it, Tell me what you think and Why.

[Adam C. ToolSmith]

Hey IFI, 

​ I'm thinking about welding my anvil edges up and doing some general repairs to it. While it is usable I'd love to see this classic brought back to its prime. Mint Condition or refurbished anvils of this size are next to impossible to find in Australia and if anyone has experience what would the value be of the anvil after refurbishment. 

 

Does anyone know any history in regards to the Peter Wright anvils. When where they made?, How where they made?, Are there any patents to identify this anvil specifically or at least its model.

Now I've chosen a high chromium Manganese Hard facing welding electrode to do the whole job. I only have to weld to steel not to the iron body of the anvil. 

Here is the DATA sheet for the electrode I would like to use: http://victortechnologies.asia/IM-Uploads/DocLib_4720_Cobalarc%20750%20Datasheet.pdf
 

It would be helpful to anyone who has given this a go in the past to please pass along any tips and tricks. If need be then i can have the anvil annealed and re-hardened as a local steel mill. 

 

The anvil in question is a 155kg Peter Wright i picked up for $250 Australian. 


Pictures of Anvil and proposed areas to be welded up. 

 

 

This is the main section I want to weld up. A weld has been done here before by a previous owner. I have to chip off or grind the rest of the welded piece out. Its soft and not usable.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

As you can see here the anvil has see better days. 

Thanks Everyone for any help at all. 
 

[Frosty]

The data sheet says you need to run a butter pass with a build up rod if hard facing high carbon steel. It's also an abrasive particle resistant facing rod, doesn't say anything about impact resistance.

 

I'd be looking for rod used for impact resistant facing say in rock crushers.

 

Frosty The Lucky.

[Adam C. ToolSmith]

Hey Frosty,

 

Thanks for the reply. What about this welding rod, http://victortechnologies.asia/IM-Uploads/DocLib_4730_Cobalard%20650%20Datasheet.pdf

[Adam C. ToolSmith]

This electrode seems to be the best so far. http://victortechnologies.asia/IM-Uploads/DocLib_4721_Cobalarc%209e%20Datasheet.pdf

[jmccustomknives]

Honestly, I wouldn't put a rod on that anvil.  If you are just doing the edge the heat will ruin the temper on the rest of the face.  The shelf and horn are wrought and are not hardened.  I wouldn't use a hard serfacing rod for that.  I like a work hardening rod like the stoody Nicromang as it is easy to machine back down then hardens under a hammer.  A 309 stainless will do that too.

[Pete Buchanan]

i'm with jm custom...stoody rods are the way to go... 

[ironwolfforgeca]

     welding rods -- Stoody Rod 1105 or 2110 are what to use, Search IFI for Rod Gunther anvil repair/ welding  I used 1105

All the Info you need is there !! I have repaired over 50 anvils this way, NO problems some are still in Heavy use @ a teaching school--- Repaired wow 10 years ago :) aprox  there in good shape ! I ck them out once a year when they have a hammer in there I go to & there use by folks that don't know how to use an anvil right yet daily that says something about Rod Gunther way to fix an anvil !!!!

 

STEVE'S Welding

 

PS-- Hard face & Stainless rods    ** WRONG !!!  do you're homework !! its in the anvil page somewhere !!

 

#2 if you can't get stoody there then call them talk to the rod tech I did & get Info on 1105 & try & match it 

with something on you're side of the pond

[Fe-Wood]

I'll through in on Rob Gunther's repair method as a good one. I used it on my PW a few years back and I use that anvil all the time. Its holding up just fine....

[HWHII]

I agree with Iron wolf also. Stoody 1105 and 2110 are the way to go. Although I have used 309 stainless for small spot repairs and has worked well.

[Adam C. ToolSmith]

while i appreciate telling me to do nothing. i would like to have an anvil i can use every part of, The anvil has gone soft of those regions anyway as it has been welded before by a previous owner.... I did state i can re harden the anvil for next to nothing at a local steel mill. Ok i cannot get Stoody here in Australia easily and it will cost an absolute fortune. The alternative is the electrode i found. high impact high abrasion resistant. The question im asking for now is tips, any at all. and also is there a better alternative to the electrode i found. http://victortechnologies.asia/IM-Uploads/DocLib_4721_Cobalarc%209e%20Datasheet.pdf

[Frosty]

Bob: Rob Gunter's one of the guys I'd have to refer to. The E rod you posted the data sheet for is closer to what I'd look for but given a choice I'd go with what other guys KNOW works.

 

I'm pretty sure someone here will mail you a few lbs. of the right rod. We back each other up you know.

 

If you use a hard facing rod it's going to be a bugger to grind as it's designed to resist abrasion, think blue wheels that cost enough to make shipping a few lbs. from the States a bargain.

 

Frosty The Lucky.

[ThomasPowers]

Note that rehardening a traditionally made anvil there is always a risk of the face delaminating.  Though Charles McRaven did one using a high pressure fire hose as the water supply---just dunking an anvil in a pool isn't enough!

[yahoo2]

Hi Bobwire,

your photos are not clear enough to see how much of the top plate has been welded. Do you have any areas on the plate edges between the hardie hole and the cutting plate that have not been welded up or cut with an oxy torch?

 

if it is just the one damaged and soft area and those bits around the tail you can easily just avoid them with the hammer. If the rest of the anvil is original condition then it is in pretty good shape.

 

If both sides have been welded and reformed along the whole length of the top plate and you want to take it back to virgin tool steel and rebuild it, then I would estimate there is a good 30 hours work for an experienced (and motivated) maintenance welder. Probably 50 hours+ if you have never done this sort of work before. If you do it up and forge with it for the next ten years its worth doing, but you wont get your money back if you are going to sell it.

 

Some electrodes do a great job but you really need to be laying down a large bead and have the experience to control the heat, puddling and bead shape to get the best out of them, if you don't get it right, the welds will be highly stressed and eventually crack, that is always the biggest worry with these sort of jobs. Rods that are just for manganese steel or mild steel are not suitable. Something like nichromang is not suitable either because the cushion layer should completely separate the steel from the facing layer, you shouldn't really butt the top layer up against the tool steel plate and expect it to not shear off along that margin.

 

Both of the stoody rods are suitable for welding to tool steel and are easy to weld with. I used to use a rod called Magna 401 a lot of years ago for some oddball jobs, to build up areas on machines with chunks missing in tool steel (similar to the stoody 2110). That was a fairly forgiving rod too, but I don't recall if it work hardened to the same extent as 1105 for the top layers and patching the smaller cuts. Its not the kind of thing they put in the brochures, they just assume people wanting work hardening will be welding over manganese steel, not some  tech from the 1800's. :) If I see someone that should know this sort of stuff i will ask a few questions and see if there is a local match to the  stoody 1105.

 

i think it would be a good idea to build up and face some practice pieces before tackling an anvil.

[matei campan]

if you can find ESAB products in Australia (http://www.esabasia.com/), there's a handbook here which I think it could be useful:

 

www.esab.co.kr/Web-App/Upload/2012/03/28/Repair%20and%20Maintenance%20Welding%20Handbook.pdf

[Robert Yates]

Read this Thread Mate ,

 

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it will help you a ton literally and I am sure many here could send you them for the price they cost and shipping . they are the best rods . However , I am Not saying your equivalent rods are garbage the folks here in the USA just do not have them or can not elaborate on them as to their function and dependability feel free to look up both rods and compare them against one another . 

 

Feel free to post your info here on what you find . myself and others can help you out as to what we know works . however your ability to do the repairs is up to you or a good mate to do them properly and Safety first .

 

Best Regards

 

Sam

[darren70]

Mate in Australia Cigweld Cobalarc 350 is close to Stoody 2110 or Maybe WIA abrasicord 350

 

For the top layer or for even spot repairs you could try Cigweld Cobalarc Toolcraft. Looking at the anvil, once you have chaced all the cracks you may get away with just toolcraft. Do you have access to rockwell files or a pocet Brinell tester. It may be good to get an indication of what you have first. 

 

I am making some assumptions that you have the right equipment and your proficient in this kind of welding repair work too

 

Thanks Darren

[Gorō]

On 08/07/2013 at 9:08 AM, darren70 said:

Mate in Australia Cigweld Cobalarc 350 is close to Stoody 2110 or Maybe WIA abrasicord 350

 

For the top layer or for even spot repairs you could try Cigweld Cobalarc Toolcraft. Looking at the anvil, once you have chaced all the cracks you may get away with just toolcraft. Do you have access to rockwell files or a pocet Brinell tester. It may be good to get an indication of what you have first. 

 

I am making some assumptions that you have the right equipment and your proficient in this kind of welding repair work too

 

Thanks Darren

Thanks Darren, I was reading up on anvil face repairs by Robb Gunther and I somehow came across this. So it's cigweld cobalarc toolcraft for the anvil face?

it seems stoody 1105 is only available in the USA 

[Frosty]

No useful information on the website as to uses there were several pages of MSDS info and oft repeated CYA precautioins about PPE and treating exposure. I didn't see ONE word about the as welded properties or applications.

You MIGHT be able to find some useful info on an Esab site, Cigweld is an Esab subsidiary.

What's wrong with that anvil makes you think it needs repair? I see a couple few generations of good hard work there provided someone doesn't ruin it with a welder.

Frosty The Lucky.

[whodoamb]

If you look a little deeper you will find that Mr Gunther now uses Messer 710 for anvil repair.

[patrick]

Another good choice is Hobart hard alloy 58. This is the rod Hobart recommends for anvil repair. The southern ohio forge and anvil group has been using it for a couple decades at least for anvil repairs.  It goes down hard and grinds easy. It is not work hardening.  One thing you have to watch with work hardening rods is the fact that they go down soft and require deformation to get hard. The very abrasion resistant rods tend to be too brittle for anvils.

[VaughnT]

I love threads like this.  I've got a Wilkinson anvil that's been ground down past all the cracks and delam and bad welds where someone tried to "fix" it ages ago.  I still haven't gotten up the nerve to try welding on it.  Looks like I'll have to do the entire face as well as a goodly bit of the sides if I want to get the ol' girl back in action.

[BIGGUNDOCTOR]

Vaughn , have you thought about gapping a whole new plate and welding between them to put a new face on it? That eliminates the machining/grinding to get it flat. 

 

[Frosty]

Vaughn, if you're going to lay hardface over the entire surface I'd like to suggest you use chill plates on the edges they'll stop the bead from flowing over the edges for nice clean edges and save you hours of grinding.

Remember steel on stone rod!

Frosty The Lucky.

[Charles R. Stevens]

TJWatts welded the bottom flange of of a hunk of rail on his, the flange slope allowed him to reach in and fully weld it on, used a couple of fore 350 gallon totes on forklifts to quench. If the plate is pretty much gone I think this is a better bet than hard facing rod. Repair and heat treat on a 90% face is another thing altogether.