Everything posted by Frank Turley
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Tempering 4140
How about before drawing? Normalize at 1600-1700F. Anneal 1500-1550F. Harden in oil, 1525-1575F.
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Making chain
The following info applies to hand forged links, not ones placed between dies. There is no upsetting needed. The scarfs are often made with half-face blows on the near, radiused edge of the anvil face. The link end is slightly onto the anvil face (about the stock diameter) at a 45degree angle. Another way is to use the cross peen at a 45. In both cases, the scarf is drawn and angled toward the inside of the U bend. Leave the scarf points a little thick. For example, on 3/8" D material, leave about 1/16" in thickness. When the two scarfs are bent inward to meet, they should meet at a 90 degree angle, because you made the scarf shoulders at a 45. They should not meet smoothly, so that they look like a finished link curve; more like a gothic arch, negative space, inside. Looking inside the join, the shut should appear s-shaped before welding. The lap is fairly extreme, so that the scarf points protrude a little beyond each other. It is a side-scarf setup. The initial weld is done of both sides on the anvil face near the horn. Then go immediately to the horn holding the link at a 45, and swing it while hammering, so you're welding toward the scarf point. Turn it over and swing and weld in the same manner. Mild steel sometimes takes two welding heats; wrought iron, one. If another heat is taken, go directily to the horn and weld, holding it at various angles from vertical to 45. The only thing that gets the inside finished is contact with the horn, unless it's a large link where you can reach inside with the hammer face. When inspecting old, well made wrought iron links, I have noticed that a link will often have a somewhat peaked appearance at the outside top of the weld area. The inside will be smooth and rounding. This "peak" is done by judicious hammer control when moving the link and hammering over the horn. It gives extra thickness at the weld. I have also noted that the points of the scarfs may be visible on a finished link. These show as slight shuts and are not a problem, as long as the area between the shuts is solidly welded. http://www.turleyforge.com
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Forge welding help!!
About the idea of molten steel, "get over it!" The steel is not molten. The high tech guys call this type of weld a solid state or a solid phase weld. The metal is solid. There is some molten stuff on the surface. It is molten scale, if no flux is used. It is a molten compound of scale and flux, if flux is used. It is not molten steel. If the steel were melting, you would have either a burnt steel situation, or you would have a steel puddle underneath your hearth. The old time smiths said that the metal was "pasty" during the solid phase. During this phase, you have a relatively short time to get the metals to cohere. Turley Forge and Blacksmithing School : The Granddaddy of Blacksmithing Schools
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?Use for large graphite blocks?
I have one block that I keep under my forge. When I'm normalizing a steel tool, I put it on the block, because the graphite is essentially "non-reactive." http://www.turleyforge.com
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Forging wrought iron
Wrought iron can take a higher welding heat than a comparable size of mild steel, medium carbon steel, or high carbon steel. However, that does not mean that you ALWAYS need a high heat to weld it. Many of you know that edge tools were often forged of wrought iron in the early days to save time and money. The high carbon steel was forge welded to the wrought iron in order to form a heat treatable cutting edge, but high carbon steel cannot stand a high forge welding heat or it will crack or crumble. So you wind up with two dissimilar ferrous metals seeking a common welding heat. That welding heat is necessarily going to be a "light welding heat" sometimes called a "sweating heat" with no sparks! Wrought iron does weld at the lower welding heat. Turley Forge and Blacksmithing School : The Granddaddy of Blacksmithing Schools
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forging spurs
In the late 1800's, there were beginning to be made "one piece spurs," but prior to that, the heel band had a rectangular hole in it to receive a tenon, the tenon being on the end of the rowel shank. After insertion, the tenon is peened into the hole's countersink inside the heel band. It was filed smooth and burnished. When inspecting old Mexican and California spurs, the burnished part is almost invisible. You can sometimes see what we call a "ghost of a rivet," a faint outline. Turley Forge and Blacksmithing School : The Granddaddy of Blacksmithing Schools
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First post, first question
In Tiemann's "Iron and Steel," he talks about the Catalan Forge being an open hearth type, a direct process of making a forgable bloom of about 300 pounds in 3 hours. Perhaps the precorsor of the indirect process (cast iron to wrought iron) was the st
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Another old anvil ID, please?
It looks like a Hay-Budden, and I don't think that it is ugly. The faces are normally 4" wide or just under 4". Often, on an anvil of that size, the waist width is also about 4", measuring side to side, not horn to heel. My "Anvils in America" book gives an approximate date of 1912 for its manufacture, and that is based on the six digit serial number. Turley Forge and Blacksmithing School : The Granddaddy of Blacksmithing Schools
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setting railings in granite steps
I use Rockite. It can be mixed to be pourable, or by using less water, it gets putty-like and can be pushed into a horizontal hole. It sets up in 15 minutes, so you need to make sure everything is plumb, level, and square before applying. Turley Forge and Blacksmithing School : The Granddaddy of Blacksmithing Schools
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forging spurs
An out of print book by Robert M. Hall is "How to Make Bits and Spurs." I used DealOz.com Official Site | Buy Textbooks | Sell Textbooks | Used College Textbooks | New College Textbooks | Textbook Price Comparison | Cheap Textbooks | Cheapest Textbooks | Compare Textbook Prices | Textbook Buyback | Textbook Price Bot | New and just now and 3 copies showed up. Alibris has one for $27.00+. It is an excellent book and shows much of the California style including some silver work. http://www.turleyforge.com
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Who inspires you?
Let's not forget books. I'm always marveling at the photos in books by Fritz K
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my Hay- Budden?
I have three HB's in the shop. One is a big ol' blocky one that has hardly any marks on it. Another has a "1" stamped by the handling hole in the waist under the horn. Another has a "2" stamped by the handling hole. Not sure what they are, maybe an inspector's mark. Something to look for. http://www.turleyforge.com
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Carbon content of Copper coated grounding rods
I just returned from the shop where I spark tested a 10' length of the grounding rod that has been in my scrap pile for about 20 years! I got a medium carbon spark, meaning it's between 1030 and 1052, I'm guessing toward the lower end. I don't know of a quick way to remove copper from iron. In fact, at a heat, copper has an affinity for iron. Copper can be used as a hard solder for brazing ferrous metals. If the iron or steel is clean and at a good cherry red, the copper will melt and flow by capillary action between the tightly fitted pieces. It goes into the ferrous surface for a few thousands of an inch causing the bond. If the copper was initially deposited by an electrolytic process, perhaps that process could be reversed, but I'm out of my area of blacksmithing, so I'm guessing. Horseshoers are a different breed of cat than blacksmiths. A horseshoer is said to surreptitiously throw an all-copper penny in a coal forge in order to screw up another horseshoer's forge weld. Big joke! I have never experimented with this, but if the weld is messed up, it is probably because of cuprous oxides permeating the fire and getting on the work surfaces. Turley Forge and Blacksmithing School
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All 3 Gunters at Saltfork!!
Wishing to no longer hide my light under a bushel and at the same time, wishing to toot my own horn...I will be the presenter at the Doug Hendrickson Memorial, a St. Louis BAM event, November 21-22, q.v., on the Calendar.
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looking to improve my library...
Plain and Ornamental Forging by Ernst Schwarzkopf has been reprinted by Astragal Press. I've been using my copy since I discovered it in a 2nd hand bookstore in 1965. One of the best and it may be out of print, is "Werk und Werkzeug des Kunstschmieds" by Otto Schmirler. Don't be thrown by the title which roughly is, "Work and Tools of the Artsmith." Each printed page is in English, French, and German. The photos and reproduced watercolor pictures make it a wonderful how-to book. The author was raised in and around his relatives' Viennese iron studio, where he became the designer. Turley Forge and Blacksmithing School : The Granddaddy of Blacksmithing Schools
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forge materials in australia
There is an Artist Blacksmiths Association, N.S.W, Inc., which puts out "erratically" a nice newsletter. Their address from 2006 was Graham Moyses, 8 Lake Spur, Laurieton, NSW 2443. Their membership and officers would be helpful. I demoed for the "Hot Iron Muster" near Brisbane in 2005 and had a wonderful time. Turley Forge and Blacksmithing School : The Granddaddy of Blacksmithing Schools
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Cobbler's Kids
For my house, I have a small porch stair railing, a wood stove, a paper towel holder, and a potted plant hanger, all "early Turleys." There's a quite old Spanish saying, a cognate to the shoemaker's kids. "En la casa de herrero, cuchara de palo." "In the blacksmith's house (hangs) a wooden spoon." Turley Forge and Blacksmithing School : The Granddaddy of Blacksmithing Schools
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Punching thick bars?
There are proprietary punch lubes, but for the small shop, coal dust works fairly well. It's best put on with a spoon or alternatively, if the end of the punch is cool enough to wet and hold some surface water, you can dip the wet punch in the dust and it will stick.
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You know you're a blacksmith when......
You know you're a blacksmith when you're: overweight; wearing your balloon top decorative cap; wearing Carhartt bib overalls or Carhartt workpants with garish suspenders; over 6' 2" in height; frizzing your beard with heat; strong and sinewy; wearing a shirt size 19-38; able to look through a keyhole with both eyes...at once!* *Just being facetious and fatuous [sort of]. Turley Forge and Blacksmithing School : The Granddaddy of Blacksmithing Schools
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Punching thick bars?
The London book, "The Blacksmith's Craft," talks about slot punches. The business end is proportionately narrow, parallel sided, and with rounded ends. You will remove a burr of steel when using it, forepunching and backpunching. Many smiths prefer this method to using a "slit chisel," as described and shown in Ernst Schwarzkopf's book, "Plain and Ornamental Forging." The thinner and sharpened slit chisel may leave small shuts either end of the cut which can allow for cracks to develop. If cracks do not develop, you nevertheless may see results of the slit ends even after drifting to size. I recently used a slot punch on a hatchet eye before drifting and going through 1 3/4" stock. I made my slot punch from S7, although one could make it from an old round punch or a ball peen hammer. It is a top tool with an eye and wooden handle. You may know that some of the old hammer eye punches had the haft (handle) put on at a 45
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wrought iron finish
A few years ago, Peter Ross, formerly the head smith at Williamsburg, VA, came to Albuquerque to demonstrate for SWABA. The guy is a walking antiquary. As I recall, he said that there have been architectural "colonial revivals" occasionally, and they all miss the mark in some ways. He said that one 20th century revival idea was that the iron hardware on a door HAD to be black and it HAD to be on clear coated wood, so you could see the wood grain. The truth was that in the old days, the door AND hardware were painted over with whatever color suited, usually a lead based paint in those days. Another way of missing the mark was to put dummy hinges on the outside of a front door, even though the door opened inward. Then there is the idea of texture and color. A colonial smithy specializing in house hardware would most often have the forged hinges etc., file finished, and the hardware was sold with bare metal showing: NO hammer marks; NO wax; NO paint. Exterior European ironwork was often painted and in a variety of colors, not always black. I saw a red wellhead in Venice that had so many coats of paint that it made about a 1/8" coating. It wasn't wonderful looking, except from a distance, but the work was still extant after many years, probably because of the paint, not necessarily because it was wrought iron. Wrought iron rusts readily in a saline environment. How about texture? A smith/friend from the East got on the phone with a prospective client on the West Coast. The western man wanted the colonial period hardware to be crude, not rustic, but CRUDE! My friend said that the early work was not crude. "Oh yes it was!" was the rejoinder. They got into such a heated, loud argument that my friend just hung up on the party. Wrought iron contains an iron silicate, a slag. One book I read said that it was 4%, but it didn't say whether by volume or weight. Anyway, the silicate becomes microscopic filaments which are drawn lengthwise throughout the mass of the material when it is hammered or hot rolled. Some of this glass-like material would be on the surface of wrought iron as well as the interior. Not being a metallurgist, I would suggest that this helps to inhibit rust forming, a little more so than mild steel. By the bye, "Pure Iron" does not have this silicate, so it's another ball game. Turley Forge and Blacksmithing School : The Granddaddy of Blacksmithing Schools
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forge welding
Jonathan Nedbor of Canal Forge, High Falls, NY, sells Black Magic which I think, has boric acid and some secret other stuff. It's good flux.
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Using Motor Oil
I use Johnson's old fashioned paste, floor wax, applied with a rag. It saves me mixing up a formula of some kind. I open the doors and windows when I use it, or I do it outside. The wax is getting a little hard to find, as is 20 Mule Team borax, so my last few cans I got from eBay. Boiled linseed oil is OK except that if applied too hot, you sometimes get a kind of olive drab color. A soaked rag can catch on fire and if it does, you'll drop it right away, guaranteed. Have something handy to smother the flames. http://www.turleyforge.com
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Building coal supplier list.
Monte Vista Fuel & Feed 3155 Agua Fria 505-474-6717 Coal comes from out of state, probably Colorado. It is in large chunks mostly, but it will turn to coke. We break up some of it with a tamper, but by surrounding the fire with the large pieces, the pieces will get hot and fractionize. With your fire rake, you can chip small pieces of coke into the fire. Presently, $100 + tax for a front end loader full. They will bag it; I'm unsure of the bag price. There are a few rocks mixed in. "Please send the coal and rocks separately; I'll mix 'em when they get here." Post card sent to coal company byTom Bredlow
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Blacksmithing Tips
I really wonder whether the surface of the metal is molten when forge welding. I don't think it is. There is molten material on the surface which is mostly scale and flux melted together. This is often shaken off before reaching the anvil. Recent texts call forge welding "solid state" or "solid phase" welding; no mention of "molten." The old time smiths said that the metal was "pasty." Perhaps a metallurgist could comment. http://www.turleyforge.com