Blacksmithing Tips

[Alwin]

I was updating a sheet on blacksmithing tips which I give to classes I teach, and I thought I'd share it with you.

Blacksmithing Tips.doc

[Steve Sells]

you used the words, but did not explain what scarf or clinker meant, nor why to use flux. except to state is allows wider temp of welding ?

Most everything was covered for a smithing primer.

[Alwin]

I know I didn't define quite a few things in it. My thought in writing it was that after the class it would be nice for them to have something to refresh their memory and help them as they develop skills and try new things.

[Frosty]

Looks pretty good, thanks for posting it.

I'll go over it more closely later and if I find something I think should be different, etc. I'll let you know.

Frosty

[piglet_74]

Having it as a reference is very valuable having just taken a class last year. Our booklet has tempering charts and internet links etc. Having it somewhere students can download it is also a great help in case they loose theirs. Ours had our projects in them and they gave the dimensions of stock to start with and different operations to perform like upsetting one end then drawing out the other etc. I was wondering about the glove on the hammer hand thing. Is that because it tires your hand more quickly or something else. I found that when I was working 1 1/2" x 1/4" flat, breaking the edge on the far side got my knuckles uncomfortably hot even with the glove. Also this past weekend we broke the edges on the 1 1/2" by 1 1/2" bar for the railing post. That was the same thing but it was pretty large stock for having only one week of forging experience under our belts.

[Alwin]

You don't have a good feel for the handle with a glove on so you end up gripping the handle tightly which transmits more of the shock of the hammer blows into your arm. Without a good feel for the hammer it is also hard to make the fine adjustments in orientation that are required to efficiently move metal and cleanly finish it. A glove might prevent some small scale burns to the back of your hand but at the price of increasing the likelihood that you'll damage joints and tendons.

[civilwarblacksmith]

When we teach classes at our guild, we teach not using any gloves at all. We feel gloves can give a false sense of security. You get used to wearing gloves for protection and tend to handle metal warmer than you would if you weren't wearing them. Can lead to handling metal too hot with bare hands. We also explain that if you choose to wear gloves, which kind to wear.

[easilyconfused]

Gloves generally don't save your hands when you're holding hot metal for extended periods. By the time you realize it's hot, the gloves wind up tight and hard to get off and burn you worse. As well as they insulate to keep the heat out, they keep it in just as well once it gets there. As well, they cause more fatigue as pointed out due to the hammer twisting and sliding. I've also found that they lead to more blisters as they never fit like a 2nd skin and if they do, refer to the first section of my post. I only use my glove on my holding hand at the start of a piece in the winter (cold metal) and when punching due to the radiant heat. Otherwise, try to adjust your technique and try holding the piece/ bending it different while working that piece that gets your hand too hot.

[piglet_74]

It all makes a lot of sense. I normally didn't use them until I got into this situation. I probably would have been OK with not choking up on the hammer so much too. My hand was about two inches from the head.

Another thing I know I have to work on which you mention in your document is letting the hammer rebound and holding it too tightly. I think I need to try to take my time and use a few more heats if I need to. Right now I tense up and think I need to draw a taper on a 1/2" bar in one heat. Then do the rat tail on the second. So I tend to grip the hammer tight and force it down. At the same time I'm not comfortable using a high swing for fear of missing. I should take a heat, and using the proper swing, make few good blows and if I've lost my heat then go back into the fire instead of focusing on what I'm trying to make more than how I'm making it.

Next time I get the forge going I'm going to have to make it a point to shift gears.

thanks, Rob.

[civilwarblacksmith]

I generally as a rule do not forge with gloves. I do on occasions wear high heat welding gloves if in situations of punching close to metal, working with small parts in the forge that I'm holding with tongs in order to weld to something. Always make sure gloves are loose fitting so that they can be taken off really quickly.

[Alwin]

When working close or fishing for pieces in the forge, I'll just dip my hand in some water first- without a glove on. Wetting a glove can result in terrible steam burns if the glove gets too hot. By wetting my hand I give myself some extra time to work comfortably.

[Doug C]

This is pretty nice. Thanks for sharing.

For Safety section I would add:
Assume all metal is hot. Before you pick something up hold the back of your hand over it,more sensitive to heat, and check for temperature.

If something heavy, like a 3 pound hammer, drops near your feet and you can't get them out of the way then just raise your toes. They will not get squished quite so easily and a lot of the energy will be absorbed by the time they get to back to the floor.

If you need to pass a piece of steel that is hot on one end and cold on the other the person accepting the piece of steel grabs it between the passers hand and the cold end. Having a protocol like this will help prevent accidents.


Under hammering
Keep your thumb off of the back of the handle, unless you want to visit your local orthopedic surgeon.

[Junksmith]

I just want to thank you for posting the tips. I knew a lot of the things that were in there, but as someone who is mostly self-taught, there were some little tips that made a big difference, particularly with regard to hammering and stance. I'm not ready to make a 12 foot set of gates or anything but I saw immediate improvement. Thanks again.

[Alwin]

Thanks for saying that. I'm really glad it was helpful.

[Hofi]

sorry wrong button
ALWIN
I do not agree with your statement on paragraph 5 hammering section
'' DO NOT USE YOUR WRIST'' to my opinion and experience the wrist is very important in speeding down (velocity in square) and raising up the hammer while forging. If one holds the hammer right with the palm of the hand almost parallel to the anvil with the thumb on the side and hold it light no harm and damage will happen.
Hofi

[Alwin]

The way I learned, and what seems to work well is a loose grip around the handle making a ring with the first two fingers and the thumb. As you forge the hammer pivots from that point without the need for the wrist. The hammer rebounds off the anvil pivots from the fulcrum of your hand, pulls the elbow and shoulder up and then goes back down with the shoulder starting it, adding more velocity as the elbow naturally bends and finally the hammer pivots in the hand to contact the steel with great velocity. The velocity is just as much with less joint movement. Even moving the wrist in an up and down movement with the palm facing down can cause carpal tunnel over time. That is my understanding through training and experience, but I would like to hear arguments against that.

[Frank Turley]

I really wonder whether the surface of the metal is molten when forge welding. I don't think it is. There is molten material on the surface which is mostly scale and flux melted together. This is often shaken off before reaching the anvil. Recent texts call forge welding "solid state" or "solid phase" welding; no mention of "molten." The old time smiths said that the metal was "pasty."

Perhaps a metallurgist could comment.

http://www.turleyforge.com

[Alwin]

You may be right. I really don't know, it is how I've conceptualized it. Let me know if you find out exactly what is happening in the process. I tend not to use flux on mild steel, so I'm welding at a light sparkling heat. It is a narrow temperature range but very effective. I really can't say I understand exactly how the bonding takes place in forge welding. It seems to be a molecular bond in which the two pieces really do become one. Elucidation is always welcome.

[pkrankow]

Feel free to reshape the wooden handles on your hammers. Manufactured handles have a lot of extra material on them and most hands do not fit them well. This can cause excessive choking up on a hammer, and fatigue from having to hold a hammer too tight to maintain control.

I look forward to the finished guide. Just a thought: you can use your print function to make a .pdf file that is a bit more universal to open. My new computer doesn't have all the software I want on it.

just my $0.02

Phil

[John B]

I look forward to the finished guide.
Phil

You may have to wait a very long time for that ! Edited September 25, 2009 by John B

[David Einhorn]

... Even moving the wrist in an up and down movement with the palm facing down can cause carpal tunnel over time. That is my understanding through training and experience, but I would like to hear arguments against that.

I would tend to agree with Hofi for two reasons:

1. I ended up with Carpal Tunnel and had a physical therapist come to my workstation to evaluate my movement and workstation and educate me on what was causing my Carpal Tunnel. What he told me is that Carpal Tunnel is caused by repetitive motion of the wrist being bent backward such as when typing, waiters carrying trays of dishes, cashiers bending their wrists while pushing items down their conveyor belt, etc. The backward bending of the wrist irritates and inflames the Carpal Tunnel. He said that if you don't bend your wrist backwards, then you should not get Carpal Tunnel. Hofi's method does not bend the wrist backward.

2. I taught martial arts for about eight years. Hofi's method exemplifies efficient motion that is taught by *traditional* martial arts styles. His method is especially useful for those that have already hurt their joints and wish to prevent further damage. :D

[Alwin]

I thought the Hofi method was promoting a movement of the wrist like that in a basketball dribble; which is said to be better for the joints than the side to side wrist movement. I just learned to use very little wrist, letting the hammer pivot in a loose hand grip. If the hammer can pivot in the hand in harmony with the movement of the shoulder and elbow joints than the wrist can get less wear and tear while the hammer still moves with great velocity.

[double_edge2]

this is good stuff. when i do the hofi hammer type action i too use more heats trying for technique rather than power. i figure like m/arts too, as technique improves so will power. outer is pasty to wet when welding. sparkling is wet, uncovered and meeting air.