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Everything posted by gote

  1. Ingenious JHCC. Like the valve of an old steam engine. It looks as it can be much better in controlling air than the usual valves. It also means that a blower that relies on its own air for cooling the motor does not get overheated. I will keep the principle in my mind should I need to rebuild my forge. Thank you for posting.
  2. jlpservicesinc. I am impressed by your silencing the anvil. My main anvil is a North Swedish 250 pound cast steel. The shape is similar to the German designs with little waist and two horns. I use a stump with a routed 10mm depression that prevents it from walking and which is dished so the anvil is supported around the rim. The result is an anvil that is perfectly solid the way I use it. I do not own a heavier hammer than two kilograms and usually use 1.25kg one. It is very close to be as silent as yours except when hit at the horns without hot steel in between. I also have a London pattern cast steel 70-pounder. That one also sits on a dished stump. Since it is light I have fixed it to the stump using four 6" nails, bent over the feet. (I do not want to be nicknamed 'Coyote' ) Just as you describe, the clamping down dampened the ring very considerably. The London pattern anvil can be described as two tuning forks back to back. One way to stop a tuning fork from sounding is to grip one of the tines and that is what we do when we tie down the feet. It seems to me that my bigger anvil is heavy enough in itself to make sufficiently good contact between stump and feet whereas the lighter one needed to be tied down to dampen the sound. The comparison is not really conclusive since the geometry of the anvils is different.
  3. I do not disagree with you at all but did not want to elaborate the point too much in an already long post. What I mean is that the elasticity in a block of wood is unimportant if the anvil is heavy enough compared to the hammer. (And that the so well educated and learned poster should know all about it in the first place). I try to say that stability is more important and I think you are agreeing to that. By the way my hobby horse is that anvils should be supported along the rim because that silences them and gives stability. I asume you know that some people do put rubber under their anvil to silence them and seem to be happy. The rookie seems to call a solid block of wood "bouncy". Just as there are degrees in a certain hot pace there seems to be degrees in bouncing. By the way I myself and all blacksmiths around here use anvils that weigh in well above 200 pounds and these do not rock or bounce even if not clamped to the stand. And, as you write, it is a question of kinetics. My anvil may rock if hit obliquely with a ten pound sledgehammer but I do not do that. And so what? People with very long experience in the field sit down at the end of the day or after retiring from professional blacksmithing and try to be helpful. Besides, Who is calling himself an "expert" on this forum? I have not noticed anyone and even the most abrasive curmudgeons say thank you when they receive new relevant information.
  4. Dear rookie, You can of course avoid listening to experienced people and insist on making your own mistakes but it is not very wise and your description of the curmudgeons as "spewing misinformation" tells us more about your personality than about anything else. Inelastic bounce is perhaps not an accurate scientific description but I assume that Frosty means that the rebound is from something that does not yield much when subject to load. His wording may be more understandable to a layman than the exact scientific definition; which I - with a university level degree in mechanical engineering do not remember. Your way of writing does not make me look it up (besides it will be in a language you probably do not understand.) Those who contribute to IFI do not write for your eyes only. They try to write for a larger audience. Now you yourself wrote "endgrain of stacked planks" Stacked planks are lying down (see definition of stack in dictionary) so mounting on the end grain would mean that you mount the anvil on a vertical surface. Your wording thus indicates that you are not familiar with wood working or framing so it is natural that the answers assume ignorance on your side. I think you are confusing two issues here. A: Is the answer correct as describing what works/not works in the real world situation in the smithy? B: does the answer give a scientifically correct explanation with the perfect scientific wording? If you are more interested in B, you make yourself into the 'keyboard blacksmith' you are complaining about. The explanation given may sometimes be wrong but it might be worded in a way that people without a degree in engineering can understand. To reject experience gained by decades of blacksmithing on the grounds that you give in your post is IMO just foolish. I personally do not think that the properties of the stand are that important if the anvil is heavy enough. If you have an engineering education you should understand that the transfer of dynamic energy from hammer into the stock is highly influenced by the weight (and Young's modulus and possibly yield point) of the anvil and that the amount of elasticity in the stand is of very minor importance if the anvil is heavy enough compared to the weight of the hammer. If the shock wave in the anvil has not reached the boundary to the stand when the deformation of the stock is completed, the bounchiness of the stand has no influence at all. That means that stability and dampening of ringing are the important issues - not the elasticity of the stand. In my opinion you were given very sound advice to your question in your post and I think that you are being ungrateful and abusive. I do not think that you should talk about self aggrandizement IMO it has kicked back.
  5. And all six answers are right!
  6. Interesting note Thomas. Has anybody tried to see the nodes by putting a powder on the face of the anvil and striking her? I will try myself later in the week but I believe I have two nodes where there is next to no ring when I strike.
  7. gote

    Hammer info

    My guess is that it is a stone mason's hammer/sledge.
  8. these are very good looking whatever they are. May I suggest that you do something about the fixing. If home maid nails are out you can always get a screw with a hexagon head and bash it up so it gets in style with the rest.
  9. gote

    Tong obsession

    Your last ones are really good looking but why the shoulder? I mean is there a purpouse beside the good looks?
  10. A really nice idea. I will start looking for a sufficiently thick screw. I would, however, add my hobby horse. I always force a hot square tube into the hardy hole and cut it off to use as a stem. If there alread is a stem i grind it to fit the tube stump and weld it in place. This locates the tool very securely but without any jamming.
  11. I switch hardy tools when the stock is in the fire so I loose no time at all. I further make all hardy tools in such a way that they are a thight but loose fit in the hole and that the force is transmitted to the face of the anvil. I can remove all of them by lifting between thumb and fore finger but they do not move sideways more than a tenth of a millimeter or so. I do not think that anybody has said that a bottom fuller is better. It is said - and very true in my view - that skill is more important than the tool but a bottom fuller is one of the tools that CAN be used. Yes it does but this may depend upon who holds the hammer. But you are right, it is necessary to correct but this is more because even over the edge, there is a certain amount of unwanted sideways squeeze.
  12. I thought that referred to the risk of getting the stock too thin by sheer enthusiasm. But I do agree with you. Learn as many ways as possible and laarn about their disadvantages as well as advantages.
  13. You can always try again - I look forward to it.
  14. Please try to read what is actually written. You are barking up the wrong tree - again. I meant that IN THE POST i did not advocate the use of any special method. That has NO bearing on what I myself do. Is that clearer now? I did not say that your marks were referring to the spring fuller. I was discussing the geometry of some of the ways to stretch a bar and why in my opinion the radius of the thinner "Blunt edge" is more important than the larger edge (you claim that yourself when you state that the anvil edge is superior). I do not claim that the simple spring fuller is more efficient in stretching a bar. I use it as an example of squeezing between two surfaces with the same radius. My whole argument is an attempt to explain why I do not think that hitting over the anvil edge with a flat hammer hammer is substantially inferior to use a rounding hammer. AND MY ORIGINAL POINT IS THAT A FLAT HAMMER IS MORE FORGIVING WHEN A BLOW IS OFF CENTER. The topic of the thread is rounding hammers not anvil edges. Of course you get dents regardless of which method you use My point is that it is quite possible to make these disappear before the stock goes back into the heat and that they help in stretching if positioned suitably and if they are taken out before the stock is too cold. In a way you are saying the same but you seem to prefer taking them out in a separate operation. I do not. I feel I have better control over the process if the stock is flat again before next heat. It is easier for me to judge progress (and avoid going too far too fast). In other words when you say "You do not planish every heat" you are wrong. I do. I did not suggest that you get more dents working at lower temps but that they are more difficult to remove at lower temps so one has to do that before the stock is too cold. No I am not saying that a hammer creates more dents at a lower temperature. I may be absurd but not that absurd. Personally I prefer not to make any dents at all with (the flat face of) my hammer. I prefer to have the dents made from the other side i.e. the anvil edge or whatever I am using. It is easier to position the stock exactly over the edge or fuller or hardie than to position the blow exactly every time. I do not claim that a fuller is better in stretching than the anvil edge. However, it CAN be used and the efficiency depends upon the radius which can be made small. (and how much mass there is below). I saw one the day before yesterday that had a radius similar to the peen of a 3 pound cross peen hammer. And: Please: a fuller can be made to any radius mimicking any anvil edge. I believe that it could be better to use a small radius fuller over the sweet spot than to use the edge if the anvil is light and rocking. I think that this is what I wrote did I not? I did not refer to the face of the anvil but I believe that using the peen over the face is better than using a flat face hammer on a rocking anvil edge. Not all anvils have suitable edges and the gurus of this forum always advice to wait before starting to reshape the anvil. In the meantime a bar laid securely over the sweet spot is a substitute and a kind of fuller.
  15. Obviously I do not express myself clearly enough. I do not advocate the use of the horn or the fuller or the edge. I say IF you use them. My point is that a flat surface hammer is more forgiving for slightly off target hits than a rounded surface hammer (or peen). I did not say that something was a technique so I do not need to be corrected on the semantics of that issue. I have another go: If we want to stretch the stock in a particular direction it is more efficient if we squeeze it between surfaces that are narrow in that direction let us call them “Blunt edges” A simple spring fuller does just that. It squeezes between two blunt edges, the upper and lower bar, in the direction perpendicular to the bars. Someone using the peen on the face of the anvil is squeezing between a bottom flat surface and a top blunt edge. Someone using the edge of the anvil is squeezing between a bottom (hopefully) blunt edge and a top flat surface (using a flat hammer that is). It is possible to use the peen side over the edge of the anvil, which gives a similar geometry to the squeeze as the spring fuller. However, it is quite difficult to hit exactly in the right spot and with the peen parallel to the anvil edge. A flat surface hammer is very forgiving in that situation. There is no need to have the handle perpendicular to the anvil and as long as the surface of the hammer covers the contact line between the stock and anvil edge the positioning of the hit is next to irrelevant. A rounding hammer will be something in between. The angle sideways is irrelevant but the centre of the hammer should hit the centre of the contact line between stock and anvil edge. The more offset, the worse result. Whatever we do, we have to correct it all the time. All squeeze operations will to some extent squeeze in the wrong direction and we have to turn 90° and correct against the face of the anvil and I think that this is best done using a flat surface of a hammer. Yes I agree that is not a big issue but it has to be done and the more sideways squeeze the more correction. I do not quite understand your “choppy looking dents”. If I do a repeated squeeze, using a spring fuller peen or whatever, the result is a surface that is wavy. When I flatten these waves, they will act as peens or fullers (you name it) and further stretch the material in the direction I want. Of course this means that I stop using the peen/fuller/edge before the stock is too cold. I usually flatten my stock in the same heat - maybe even two times. (Things are done differently in different places. I have never seen a flatter in real life. I flatten with the hammer; against the anvil, which has a perfect flat). I have not time to see all videos – not even the good ones - but it strikes me, that many smiths – even good ones – tend to go on beating the stock long after it is, in my opinion, too cold. To me they are beating dead horses. If the stock is cold when flattening you will have dents – I agree on that but you are not beating dead horses are you ?? Another issue that I see (that perhaps has less bearing on this) is that many use light anvils that are rocking at each hit. If the anvil is instable you cannot expect good results unless hitting squarely on the anvil so the mass centre is below the hammer. I believe this rocking is a handicap when using the edge. I am in the lucky position that my anvil weighs nearly 250 pounds and she is supported on the perimeter of the footprint, which both stabilizes her and silences her. Obviously one has to create the waves in order to use them so one has to move the stock lengthwise a little between each hit. They should be waves; not impressions with flats in between. To me, the flattening operation is part of the stretching operation and I think that it is quite efficient. The squeezing will be more efficient with sharper “edges” but if the edge is too sharp, the flattening will be more difficult and maybe impossible without stretching more than intended. Thus the rounded anvil edges and blunted peens. The face of a good anvil is a good flatter but more heat is lost into the anvil if a peen is used over the face than if a flattish hammer is used over the edge. The squeeze effect depends upon the radiuses of the edges. The smaller the radius the more squeeze. If we squeeze asymmetrically with a small edge radius (anvil edge) and a large one (infinite for the flat hammer) I would believe that the small radius is dominant. Here is where I have some difficulty in understanding. To me it seems that a rounding hammer with its relatively large radius would not make much difference. A fuller can act in the same way as the anvil edge and has the advantage that more shapes might be available. However, the London pattern anvil is badly designed for fuller use. There is not much mass below the square hole and the hole is far away from the anvil footprint so there is flexing and maybe even rocking. One can overcome this by using a fuller resting on the sweet spot with an extension to the hole for keeping it in place. The simplest design is a (round) bar resting on the top of the anvil and having a loop down in the hole just as simple spring fullers are made. This type or fuller will help the rocking light anvil.
  16. What Glenn said about tuing forks is important. The bottom half of the fork is the feet. To stop the ringing it is important that the feet i.e. the end of the feet have good contact with the stand. I use very slightly dished tree stumps as stands and my anvils are silent. The big one (250 lsb) does not need it but the small one (80 lsb) needed to be clamped down as well. Four 6" nails did the job. If you wedge a piece of wood between the underside of the heel and the stand (London pattern) It becomes muted 100%. That works like holding the rim of the bell.
  17. Hope ypu are soon back at the anvil Thomas (I mean allowed to be)- There is one thing about using hammers that not often is mentioned. It is easier to put the stock exactly on the anvil edge/horn or on a fuller than to hit exactly right with the hammer. So when working on the edge it is easier to hit right with a flattish hammer than with a rounded. If the rounded hits a little to far away or to near, it will tend to bend the stock; something the flat surface does not. Also there is no need to turn the hammer when planishing the dents made by the edhge of the anvil. A flat hammer working on the edge will also spread a little less sideways; which spread you will need to hammer back, which again is best made with a flat surface. This does not mean that I think that the rounding hammer is inferior it only means that it all depends upon the situation and the technique you prefer. Ignorant people tend to throw out/destroy all kinds of valuable stuff This is one of the reasons why antiques increase in value. An old lady I used to knew, had a very interesting and beautiful garden. The realtor said it would scare buyers away so he had it bulldozed. The new owners then complained that the beautiful old garden was gone. Then we have all those who think expensive tools are cute and let them rust away as garden ornaments or use antique chests of drawers as compost bins or valuable antique pewter plates to feed chicken from. (I am not making this up)
  18. There is so much air from the room drawn in with the smoke that the chimney temperature never gets into the dangerous area. My own stays around 200°C The original sticker on the pipe is not even brown.
  19. It is also possible to "bend back" by laying the to be edge on the anvil and strike the tip. The contact surface with the anvil is long unlike the contact to the hammer so the "blunting" is usually very little and can be corrected in the next heat.
  20. Can you help me selecting lottery tickets This is a really nice find. If she were mine. I would not do any more cleaning, instead I would put on some nice finish, boiled lineseed oil or some kind of wax. Patina is easy to destroy and difficult to get back. It is an old lady and you do not want to embarrasing her by making her naked. As already pointed out. Use her and the top surface will shine.
  21. I never use scroll jigs so I may be just showing off my ingnorance but it seems to me that you could use a piece of steel to wedge the start of the sroll to the jig. I do agree that the jig does not look particularly attractive. the start = innermost part does not have a bery pleasing shape
  22. Why? To me: 'Forum incarnate' is the object of 'is' and incarnate is the modifier of forum. Or do you mean that the forum is no carnation?? Please explain
  23. Forgot to say: My preference for wood is partly that my wood working shop is always ready to go and to stop whereas the blacksith shop needs starting and the fire and extinguishing it again. For a one-off, wood is faster.