Pressing Skillets?

[MRB]

Hi,

  I would like to expand my current production of cookware, and start offering skillets and frying pans. Forging them by hand takes too much time to be profitable, so I was curious if I could press them cold with a press? I currently have a coal iron 12 ton, but I doubt the 12 tons will suffice. Do you think a 25 ton press would work with a proper forming die? Could I get away with one of those hand cranked presses too to dish them out cold? Thanks

[Frosty]

No. You might be able to cold press a single egg skillet from 16ga. with 25 ton press. If you want to make say 10' skillets you'll need something on the order of a couple hundred tons minimum I'd be betting on a couple thousand tons. That is just a guesstimate but we ran stamping presses in Dad's shop, large mechanicals with flywheels on the order of 10' dia. They ran from the 12ton punch press to the 25+ton stamping press. The light one punched holes in blanks rarely as heavy as 14ga steel. The 25 ton stamped the dished centers of candle lamp shades as seen in Dino's on 77 Sunset Strip. The bases and shades of the candle lamps on the tables were from Dad's shop.

Anyway, these presses had flywheels weighing many tons spinning about 120 RPM and could deliver impact force up to the press's rating. Judging by what it'd do when I was running it the heavy press would stamp a skillet from 14 ga. maybe 4" dia. 1/2" deep, I'd be willing to bet on that though we never worked it that hard.

These weren't hydraulic slow push, these hit hard enough to be felt through your feet in the neighborhood and they might've stamped largish Egg Macmuffin sized skillets.

Frosty The Lucky.

[MRB]

Thanks for the reply. I did see a guy using what he claimed to be a 25 ton press, stamp large cook skillets in one heat. Even saw him use is 25 pound fly press. Of course there was hammer clean up needed, but I wish there were more details as to how he was able to do this cold

[MRB]

Pardon my previous wording, I meant to say he pressed in one motion, not heat. He did it cold

[JHCC]

What’s the objection to pressing them hot?

[LeeJustice]

What material are you wanting to press into skillets?

[ThomasPowers]

How thick? What Alloy?  What Size?  What is the desired throughput and budget constraints?   How high is up?

Have you tried heating the blank. Trapping the flat center and working the edges with a pneumatic gun like some folks are doing repoussé with?

[MRB]

My press isn't currently wide enough to allow pressing a skillet to begin with, so I'll need to build or buy a new one anyways. I'm just curious if 25-30 tons will be sufficient before I make the investment. I will try making probably 13" frying pans max, out of 12 gauge mild, maybe a 2" lip on them. So basically want to press a 15" round piece of 12 gauge into a rough pan shape, ready for hammer dressing. I could heat the discs if absolutely necessary if I make a new forge, but I have seen it done cold and was curious if anyone else has seen it done.

Ive also considered metal spinning, however a lathe will take up more space then my already useful forge press I need for everyday production. But, I have heard of guys spinning with standard wood lathes, so I guess it might be an option

[Frosty]

You're not going to spin a 13" skillet from 12ga. in a "standard" wood lathe either. How much do you know about metal spinning?

You should contact a company that makes presses and ask what weight press you need to press a: 13" skillet 2" deep from 12ga. mild in a closed die. Don't tell you want to use a hand pump press or any other ideas. Just ask the question. 13" skillet 2" deep, 12ga. mild steel, closed die. 

Frosty The Lucky.

[ThomasPowers]

Have you tried a sufficiently stout "hinged die" to press them with your current set up. The plate being outside  so as to not contravene the width limitations?

Also you may want to take a look at Eric Things propane armour forge that is designed to heat sheet metal for forming into 3D shapes.

[JHCC]

23 minutes ago, ThomasPowers said:

sufficiently stout "hinged die" to press them

Kind of like a tortilla press, then.

[Frosty]

Like a blanking die with clearance for the thickness of the stock, maybe. I can envision a lot of weird stresses imparted that way though. Most deep draw dies are designed to apply even force or hit it REALLY fast.

Frosty The Lucky.

[Goods]

We are doing an automotive part (1 1/2” dia. 6” deep, basically mild steel) at about 25 strokes a minute at work. 1200 ton mechanical transfer press, with water cooled tooling, even with that the parts come out really pretty hot and sometimes end up with splits because the die lubrication is burning up. (Very over simplified description… and definitely not our forte or world class…)

David

[MRB]

Here are those videos, one he uses his press and the other he uses the fly press. Maybe this will give a better idea of what I'm envisioning. He does some really nice looking work

 

Skip to 3:40

 

Skip to 1:15

[JHCC]

So basically he’s cold-forging some fairly shallow pans using the presses to do the rough shaping, not stamping them out at one go. 

The hydraulic press has matching spherical dies for the basic shaping. I can’t quite see what the tooling is with the fly press, but it looks like a similar bottom die and a flat-bottomed top die to work the shape down. In both cases, it’s multiple strokes of the press to work the blank into shape before hand-hammering.

I don’t see any reason you couldn’t do something similar on your Coal Iron, since you’re forging, not stamping. 

[ThomasPowers]

Wow the music really trashes the video; an explanation of the steps he was doing would have been MUCH better!  On the first video I think the flypress was used only to apply his touchmark.  

Note putting COPPER handles on cookware is hideously stupid as they transfer heat extremely well and you do NOT want heat transfer for parts you may possibly grab with your bare hands!  I put steel basket handles for my camp cooking pots as I don't cook over an open fire with gloves on!

 

[Frosty]

Did you really sit through al that Thomas?

MRB: He's forging pans not pressing them and in a not very impressive way.

He could've forged woks in many sizes with a ring bottom die and smaller spherical top die and done the frying pans in the same press with a smaller ring bottom die. 

Copper handles on metal cookware shows a near utter lack of knowledge of heat management. Probably has tin cups in his camp box. 

Frosty The Lucky.

[George N. M.]

The videos are a good example of what looks pretty is not always the same as what works well.  I would call those pans something to hang on a kitchen wall rather than something to use.  This looks like something the creator knows how to make but has never actually used for cooking.  One of the main advantages to iron and steel for cookware is its low transmissivity of heat.

"By hammer and hand all arts do stand."

[ThomasPowers]

Yes I sat through it---after turning the sound off. I wanted to see how many expensive tools he had to use to make things commonly made by itinerant Asian smiths with few tools at all.    

I felt it was a beautifully equipped shop, the video had good production values, (perhaps not on an instruction basis though), and the design was flawed from the git go.    I felt it was an example of "flash over performance" and might lead folks astray; thinking that the person knew what they were doing...Making renaissance cookware based on Scappi's 1570 book and then camping next to the cook using them for a week at a time and discussing them and how to improve them over various meals; gave me some different viewpoints on making cooking implements.

[Frosty]

I turn the volume off on any video with music or a roaring forge drowning out everything else. 

He had a nice shop and good video production values. I'm thinking he's just figuring out how to use his press, he certainly doesn't know how to use one to forge a wok or frying pan.

I think it's a good educational video with a good narrator you could point out lots of ways NOT to use a hydraulic press for this type work. Only a near complete newbie would try pressing the whole blank with such a piddle little press. From start to finish it's an exercise in mistakes. Flash over performance is a good description. I think another is, guy with camera showing off a new toy.

MRB: Please do NOT think any of this is directed at you. You don't know enough about this kind of work to be able to judge good from bad information. This isn't your fault, we all had to start somewhere and have fallen for bad actor with convincing lines. 

We're offering you the benefit of our mistakes so you don't have to make the same ones. 

Frosty The Lucky.

[ThomasPowers]

And you can improve your work by learning what was wrong with those methods/designs and going on to avoid them!  

[bubba682]

Thomas i took your advice and watched some vids of Chinese smiths makin woks it was pretty interesting what is seen lol and the music was unbelievably bad.One smith sad over 20 thousand hand blows to make a wok but the did have specialized tools to make it easier a little anyway.The tools i noticed were custom bowl shaped swedge block and there anvils were rounded along with a handle former and none of there woks were flat bottom.All were made with heat nothing cold formed but i will say this they would probably give the last of the teeth they had for a press and a plasma cutter lol.

[Adriaan Gerber]

I've hot pressed a 10" skillet in my 20 ton press in one go. A bearing race on the bottom with a round chunk of steel on top with some clearance. Finish with the hammer. 

[Jbradshaw]

Can you share pictures of this set up?

Edited August 3, 2021 by Mod30
Remove excessive quote.

[Adriaan Gerber]

I'll take some