February 18, 20251 yr I simply strive to meet her requests. She knows what she wants. And she wants a bag tree, lol
February 18, 20251 yr True that. Has she made a sketch so we can work around what she wants? Frosty The Lucky.
February 18, 20251 yr Hello! I didn't create much recently, but reorganized a lot in the shop. This week, I updated the fire to better fit the layout of the forge. At first, it wasn't really practical to have the table reach as far into the room and at the same time have so little space to warm up longer pieces. So I turned it lengthwise, but then the water trough got in the way. As I didn't really need that on there anyway, I bolted down a 6mm plate over the opening, to create more useable space. I didn't weld it in place, to be able to flawlessly reverse the process, if need be. I also moved the blower up onto a beam, it was bolted to the table before. Before: After: Cheers! Julian
February 18, 20251 yr I think my original post somehow misrepresented what I was requesting in the form of advice. There is already a plan and already a design. The original deadline was this Saturday but weather has pushed it back. I have already begun working on the project and have the 3 vertical supports created (though not yet shaped for the curves). I've also finished 4 of the ball ends for the arms - which were basically randomly wrapped up 3/16 round bar to look like an unraveling ball of yarn. I have made new guillotine dies to help make the rope twist grooves into the 3/8" square bar a little faster for the creation of the arms. What I was asking was if anyone had experience making a similar kind of thing and had tips they had already picked up which I could use to save me from learning the hard way, lol The original plan I shared was basically shop notes for myself - to determine the length I'd need for various pieces and notes on what stock I intended to use for which parts, and other random bits of info I didn't want to forget about. I just figured I'd share that with other experienced smiths to see if they caught anything I did wrong or wasn't considering or maybe could execute differently. For example: Am I correct in thinking a 3-legged stand is easier to balance than a 4-legged stand? Do the legs really need to curve out if it turns out that I don't have the length needed to do that and still have enough height for the rest of the stand? This will be used in the converted attic space so it will have to be carried up a stairwell. So I'll attach two arms to each leg either with tenons or welding. Then I'll have two holes in each leg and three holes in each ring. Each leg will attach to the two center rings using bolts/nuts. This is how I intended to assemble it in place so if anyone sees a problem with that which I'm missing - I'd love to hear it. In regards to the "use materials already on hand" under the list of Needs on the image, this is (mostly) what I have that's 1/2" or smaller and of a somewhat substantial length (meaning, I'm not including bits of scrap pieces of less than 2ft). 1/2" square bars from leftover big box store balusters for deck railing 3/8" square bars - also balusters from a railing but this is the front porch/stair style rails. I also have the other bits of that railing - so some 3/8" preformed scrolls and some C-channel from the hand rail & base supports bed rails (1.5" x 1.5" angle iron) garage door spring 3/16" & 1/8" round bar 1/8" x 1/4" flat bar 1/4" x 1" flat bar
February 18, 20251 yr Bolt it down if you are scared it falls over. Also legs could be smaller in that case. Seems a big project. Good luck and have fun.
February 19, 20251 yr 6 hours ago, Shainarue said: Do the legs really need to curve out if it turns out that I don't have the length needed to do that and still have enough height for the rest of the stand? No need to curve. Going back to my days as a physical therapist, I'd often say this to patients - to maintain balance (ie not fall over) the center of gravity of any object needs to be inside the base of support. The base of support is the outline of whatever is touching the floor, no matter what the shape is. The center of gravity (in your case here) depends on how many and where the bags are hanging on the structure. As folks grab the bags off the rack, this will change. In your drawing, I'd make the middle leg stick out further than the others, especially if this is against the wall and there will be no bags on the backside to counter-balance the bags on the front. And/or make sure all the bags are on the sides and none in over the middle leg.
February 19, 20251 yr Thank you gewoon and billyO. I did know from what I could find that the base needed to extend beyond the span of the arms. And I did read specifically if it's a single center base, the weight needs to be enough to support maximum potential off balancing. I thought by changing it to 3 legs that I wouldn't require as much weight at the base but it sounds like that was possibly erroneous thinking. Alas, no bolting to the floor. But I'll brainstorm on ideas for weight that can be added to the feet. Like maybe fancy sand bags or if I'm feeling especially ambitious, some kind of metal art that clips onto the feet. Or maybe I could hang heavy stuff from the inside rings?
February 19, 20251 yr A lot of great work, wish I'd have kept up on mentioning it. It's inspirational. I have an extra anvil hanging around my home shop that I might be able to use at work in the body shop. Got a rr tie plate and some thick walled pipe for a base and some legs. And since I never really use it at home I might take in my gas forge to make custom repair tooling. Been there almost 14 years and they are good people and know what I'm about.
February 19, 20251 yr 12 hours ago, Shainarue said: Or maybe I could hang heavy stuff from the inside rings? This would help move the COG (center of gravity) away from the perimeter. Even better would be adding stuff on the back against the wall. perhaps adding metal decorative elements?
February 19, 20251 yr Are 3 legs better than 4? Yes and no. More legs give better support. You have to look at the base of 3 legs as a triangle and not a circle. The space between the legs the base will be closer to the center of gravity than at the ends of the legs. Adding legs between the 3 would push the perimeter out away from center (yes i know that is 6 and not 4 but it is easier to visualize the idea i am trying to convey with 6). The arms may be over the legs but if you over weight two of them it will be prone to tipping in the direction between the legs. I know you said that you did not want wood but what about a circular wood base to sit on? It could be bolted to that base rather than the floor and provide added stability. And some weight, weight will lower the point from the top that will effect the center of gravity... some. Think of putting a stick in a bucket of sand, you can hang the top of the stick far beyond the center of the bucket. You can put weight on it but only to the point that does not move the center beyond that of the bucket. I have trouble sometimes putting into words the idea i am trying to convey so i hope that made some kind of sense.
February 19, 20251 yr It makes sense. I've got a good collection of ideas to work with. I'll be sure to share my progress
February 19, 20251 yr Okay, sorry I got carried away and lost your original questions, lets see if I do better this time. A tripod is more Stable than a quad because no matter which direction you lean a tripod there is always at at least one point of contact on the far side of the lean. Same as for anvil stands, if one leg is a different length or on uneven surface the stand simply leans back until the third makes contact. Put a bit of grit under one leg of a 4 legged stand and it will rock back and forth on the two legs at 90* to the long leg. Put a poker chip under one leg of a kitchen chair for an easy demo. 3 legs Will be more stable than 4. That doesn't change the basic physics that says the center of support must be wider than the center of gravity. I can think of a couple easy modifications that will have minimal visible impact on the bag rack. #1. put flat feet on the bottoms of the legs, nothing fancy, I extended the base of the stand under my Soderfors with strips of 14ga. sheet steel a couple inches long. If I cared about looks I'd paint them to match the floor, I can always kick a little soil on them outdoors. Whatever, it's not hard to extend the base of support. The other issue I see for stability is how long the bag arms are, just in your sketches they appear to extend beyond the legs. To open opportunities for joinery, plain steel nails make fine cold rivets and they're cheap. Just drill a hole in a piece of scrap so you can check nails in the store and get the right size. NO galvy or vinyl nails! the vinyl coated nails have a friction activated glue so they glue themselves in the wood when you drive them. These are NOT good particularly nails for rivets. Nuts and bolts work nicely, I suggest using Nylock nuts so they can't loosen up over time and use. Just hanging and lifting bags off will cause enough flex in the structure to loosen plain nuts and bolts. Of course there's always lock tite. Can you lift it to an outside window on a rope if both of you heave on it? A blanket folded over the window sill so it doesn't get scratched up and you wouldn't have to take it apart and reassemble it for the install. Frosty The Lucky.
February 19, 20251 yr Thanks for all of that Frosty, you always go above and beyond! I wasn't being very careful in the redraw. The arms will be 1.75ft, the legs will span 2ft. I like billyO's suggestion to hang metal decorative elements to the backside. I asked Ashley last night if she had an idea of where she'd be putting the stand - as in, against a wall, in a corner, or in the open. She said likely against a wall. So I will have one side that I can weight heavier to counterbalance. I already have a few ideas for the hanging decorations as well. They won't really be noticeable when bags are hanging but would add to the overall design when there aren't as many bags. I was also thinking I could add some empty S-hooks around the rings and she can hang stuff from those as well - which would also add to the COG yet serve a functional purpose. I also like Frosty's suggestion to add flat feet to the bottoms of the legs. It would give more surface area to the points of stability. I will definitely use nylock nuts. You had me literally laughing out loud when you suggested installing through the window. I would have loved to suggest it to Ashley for the sole reason of watching her reaction! Alas, the windows up there are not wide enough to get the fully assembled stand through.
February 20, 20251 yr 1 hour ago, Shainarue said: Alas, the windows up there are not wide enough to get the fully assembled stand through. You should forge an axe first then? Think about a nice wide window, boom and pully. You'll have more natural light better ventilation and an easy way to bring things upstairs. Win win win! Think about it, you know how heavy rovings, can get. Deb and I were hitting garage sales a number of years ago it was a good weekend afternoon activity and you just never know when you'll find gold. I liked meeting the dogs, smithing tools almost never show up. Anyway we followed the signs to one that said they were getting rid of everything yarn, needles, knitting machines, dye, etc. Deb and the lady clearing her stuff out got to talking spinning, knitting, processing wool, etc. etc. and I started looking around. There were 13gal kitchen garbage bags full of processed and unprocessed wool starting maybe 10-12' from the front of the house stacked to the eaves say 10' high. There was a path to the man door on the garage but it was a heap of HEAP'O wool and other various things of a wooly nature. Sitting back maybe 6' from the edge near the path was a double treadle spinning wheel and a box of spindles, a couple niddy noddys, cards and other various spinning stuff. I tried but couldn't get Deb's attention, she was busy. Deb was at the table of goodies happily talking sheep, spinning, various critter fiber, and I caught the seller's eye, pointed at the wheel and signed 5 fingers to a fist, signifying a $50 offer. Deb was so preoccupied I carried the wheel past the end of the table, gave the nice lady $50 and she said I had to take as many bags of wool as would fit around the wheel in the SUV AND the drum carder on the end of the table or no deal. I must've spent the next 15 minutes packing bags of wool, 4 at a time right past Deb and stuffing them in the SUV. If you press slowly they will compress to less than the size of a bread box. I got 32 kitchen bags of wool packed around Deb's new (old) Lendrum spinning wheel without her noticing. Until that is, she tried getting in the passenger seat, there were bags of wool to the roof sort of pooching around the head rest and some of the wheel sticking out between the seats. Packed tight with bags of wool of course. She squealed loud enough the lady heard her at the top of her driveway and Deb squealed into the suv. The lady had such a happy expression I almost cried it felt so good. That was maybe the best garage sale find I've ever made. We still must have 20 bags of wool in the basement, Deb sold a bunch to spinner friends and is still making yarn. It was a real Kodak moment. Frosty The Lucky.
February 20, 20251 yr Frosty, cool story. It sounds exactly like what could have happened to Martha and I. I got to know fiber stuff well enough that I could bring home cool stuff and surprise her. My best find was when I was at an auction (I don't recall why I went) and came home with an double treadle/double wheel with an accelerator head that turned out to have been made in the Hudson River Valley about 1810. It has bone or ivory bearings and worked with a quiet hum. Cool to think about all the folk who have used it over the last couple of centuries. The oak treadles have depressions of about half their original thickness where the spinners' feet have worn the oak down. Considering that spinners usually spin barefoot that is a lot of spinning. Even though Martha has been gone 11 years I still have the wheel but I am giving it away to one of our fiber friends soon. G
February 20, 20251 yr Frosty and George, those are great stories and I had Ashley read both of them. Frosty, yes I am well aware of how much wool will compress. We flew to the Maryland Sheep & Wool event a few years back and brought vacuum space bags with us. The size you'd use for a comforter. Stuffed that as packed as we possibly could while being careful not to cause any friction. The hotel didn't have a vacuum we could borrow so Ashley laid on it while I held the flap open for air to escape. We were able to fit it all into one carry-on bag. We also have a similar story of driving home from a wool purchase with bags pushing through every available crevice of Ashley's Kia Forte You got a heck of a steel at that garage sale though. Daaaang!
February 20, 20251 yr I have been at Rocky Mountain Smiths events where there was a flock of spouses set up with their spinning wheels around the shop door. "Steel-wool" relationships seem to be fairly common. My theory is that people who are "makers" attract similar folk. It can be blacksmithing/fiber arts, woodworking/cooking, etc.. G.
February 20, 20251 yr Seems like an appropriate moment to repost images of the sign and some of the display racks I made for my wife's yarn shop. Although the latter two are no longer in use, since we moved into the new (and MUCH larger) space.
February 20, 20251 yr Compressed wool. If i remember well, best keep dry. Some clippers from way back have some stories to tell.
February 21, 20251 yr For years Deb and I were looking forward to doing some RVing in the lower 48, in particular she wanted to attend Wool Gathering while I attended Quad State. What I wanted most was to meet some of my online friends, Thomas and Jo Anne Powers most of all. We still want to make both events but if we don't hurry too many of the folks we've wanted to meet for so long well be gone. I agree George, makers attract makers and getting to know each other you tend to find other similar creative interest. Deb and I both write and more. Frosty The Lucky.
February 21, 20251 yr Frosty, if you make it you are welcome at my home. The wool gathering is 8 miles from my house, according to the sign on the road. And Quadstate is about 1/2 hour. I will put on a Kentucky BBQ molasses smoked pork but for us. Maybe a homemade mead.
February 21, 20251 yr 3 hours ago, BillyBones said: I will put on a Kentucky BBQ molasses smoked pork but for us. I didn't know I needed this recipe!
February 21, 20251 yr I sure will Billy, do you have room for a 27' RV? A bit of mead sure sounds good. When I was doing my 70s live in a cabin in the woods thing. (It was a traditional must for my generation in Alaska) A neighbor was putting up a batch of beer and asked me for help. I have no idea why but lots of neighbors asked me things like I wasn't a city kid and knew THE things. Anyway, they wanted to make a 30gal batch and didn't have nearly enough sugar nor did Talkeetna BUT 5gl. cans of honey they had and it was cheaper so I got one and we dumped the rest of the honey we had in too. I don't recall what brand or type malt (ale maybe) we used but I remember the honey beer being as good or better than any home brew I'd ever tasted. It was malty with a good head, a bit sweet and had a distinct honey-ish flavor. Better, the hydrometer said it was about 13% alcohol, on the verge of being wine. We had to keep it almost refrigerator cold or the bottles exploded. Nobody finished a second pint bottle they, fell asleep first. Splitting a bottle was perfect. Good times. About as close to being a hippy as I ever came but I didn't have enough to do so I moved back to Anchorage and got a job. Frosty The Lucky.
February 21, 20251 yr 3 hours ago, MeltedSocks said: I didn't know I needed this recipe! It is quite easy. Take 1 pork but and smother it entirely in molasses. And i mean a good thick layer. Then smoke it. That is how i make pulled pork. No sauce the molasses does fine just as is. I learned this from the Tasting History guy on youtube. I dates back to 1830's. Along the subject of molasses from what i understand using it to brew makes a brew that tastes like the name but with an "E" between "L" and "A". I unfortunately live on a postage stamp. When i say the back 40, that is 40". My driveway is also "S" shaped. I do have a 30x30 barn that would fit it. The house, my barn, and the garage that is my shop makes may yard small enough to where i could use a weed whacker to cut the grass. I have been a hillbilly my whole life, half hippy half redneck.
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