GhostTownForge Posted October 5, 2023 Share Posted October 5, 2023 If you get a ground floor room you will at least eliminate some options of annoyment Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted October 5, 2023 Share Posted October 5, 2023 Tommy, if you pack your points in charcoal in a pipe and bring it to bright red in your propane forge you can turn it into blister steel and get pretty high carbon. Just be absolutely sure the pipe you do it in had a vent hole so it can vent pressure! I don't know if anybody cares but Forged in Fire's new season starts tonight. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyBones Posted October 5, 2023 Share Posted October 5, 2023 7 hours ago, Gazz said: My auto mechanic has a hand held induction heater for loosening rusted/stuck bolts. I don't think it was cheap though. No they are not. When i was working in a trans shop about 4 years ago they were about $800. I learned today about a neat little gadget. A microwave kiln. it is a little kiln made from aluminum oxide that focuses the heat of the micro wave inside of it. It is capable of melting glass. Pop your glass inside of it, put it in the microwave for 10 minutes and the glass melts. I would suggest not doing this when the wife is home though. That would seem the most dangerous aspect of the whole thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyBones Posted October 5, 2023 Share Posted October 5, 2023 Did our edit window shorten? I tried to edit my post not a minute after i posted and when i hit save edit it said i had timed out. Anyway what i wanted to add. I watched a Japanese smith make a sword today. He had 2 strikers. They started by lighting the fire by beating a small piece of steel until the friction made it hot enough to ignite a piece of paper. The smith had a box bellows and a side draft charcoal forge. It looked like he started with a bloom of iron which he beat, and stacked, and welded until he got a billet. Then they burnt what looked like straw but i suspect rice stalks and took the "charcoal" from that and coated the billet with it as they welded it. I assume this was to add carbon to the iron. Then drew out the blade and hardened it. I would post a link but it was all in Japanese and i have no idea how to find it again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostTownForge Posted October 5, 2023 Share Posted October 5, 2023 10 hours ago, Frosty said: Forged in Fire's new season starts tonight awsome! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted October 5, 2023 Share Posted October 5, 2023 Straw charcoal makes better than good welding flux, the carbon bonds to and scavenges oxygen much more strongly than iron. It also adds carbon to the joint which lowers the melting temp in the join. You see charcoal being used as welding flux in many if not most 3rd. world smithing videos. I added some powdered charcoal to my Peterson's Blue flux and it really upped my weld success rate. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TommyVee Posted October 5, 2023 Share Posted October 5, 2023 Thanks for the charcoal-in-a-pipe suggestion, Frosty. I might not try that on this piece lest I screw it up, but will probably try it out on something simple to see it in action. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted October 5, 2023 Share Posted October 5, 2023 That's a good idea, I'd experiment on a scribe and something maybe a little larger, I doubt it'd take more than half an hour at red heat with a slow cool down. You definitely don't want to take it out until it's cool or it'll scale right up. This is something we did in high school metal shop to make scribes and small screw drivers. Nobody wanted to spend the money on high carbon steel and using salvaged steel like coil spring was a definite no no. So, we soaked them at red heat in the shop forge to make them hardenable. "Sweeten them up" was the old term what the old guys called it, according to the instructor. We heated the canisters to red, closed the forge doors and opened them the next day. We ground them and just hardened the tips, after all they were only HC a couple thou from the surface. Jimminy your project is really bringing back the memories! Dad carried my scribe till he retired. Heck, he had the aluminum ash tray I cast on a front shelf decades after he quit the habit I think my little Sister still uses it. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goods Posted October 5, 2023 Share Posted October 5, 2023 Is there any problem running it a more of an orange/yellow heat? That way one could keep the forge at a normal working temperature and get some other projects done rather that just burning through gas for 1-1/2hrs. Keep it fun, David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott NC Posted October 5, 2023 Share Posted October 5, 2023 On 9/24/2023 at 9:23 PM, JHCC said: I’m experimenting with using a pierced tennis ball* as an ergonomic tool holder How has this worked for you? I get cramps too. But I am using chisels on cold steel. A lot. Does it affect your accuracy and "feel"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyBones Posted October 5, 2023 Share Posted October 5, 2023 Frosty, when they were making the billet itself from what i assume was a bloom of iron they were using some kind of slurry that looked like soupy clay. I was assuming that is what they were using for flux. Hence the reason i assumed that the straw or rice was there to add carbon. I will be the first to admit i have limited knowledge of blade smithing much less Japanese sword smithing. maybe some one can answer this, why did they wet their anvil and hammer? Even when welding the smith would pour water on the anvil and then dip his hammer into his slack tank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stash Posted October 5, 2023 Share Posted October 5, 2023 Billy- my understanding of the water thing- the water helps to blast scale off the blank as it turns to steam. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irondragon Forge ClayWorks Posted October 5, 2023 Share Posted October 5, 2023 That's my understanding also. I've tried it some and it does work if the steel is the right temperature. I can't control the wind, all I can do is adjust my sail’s. Semper Paratus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlpservicesinc Posted October 6, 2023 Share Posted October 6, 2023 The water is to create an explosion of steam between the metal and the anvil.. Thus eliminating scale and inclusions. The Clay is to seal the metal and act as a partial flux. The burnt rice straw.. Yes burnt rice straw is in theory to balance the carbon. some of it is for the magic and mystical of the process and some of it has real purpose. The master will change what is going on, based on the results they are seeing. Something that was new to me a few years ago was seeing some of the Japanese guys adding Borax to the slurry or in some cases adding it directly to the steel before coating with the slurry. I love that no matter the ferrous materials the basics of how they join, the chemistry and the behaviors are basically the same.. Despite thinking about the precise nature of the material, it's also error-laden so us imprecise humans can actually figure it out and use it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arkie Posted October 6, 2023 Share Posted October 6, 2023 On 10/4/2023 at 11:06 PM, Frosty said: I don't know if anybody cares but Forged in Fire's new season starts tonight. Frosty The Lucky. Frosty, thanks for the heads-up. I'll be sure to not pause on that channel. Hopefully, if and when that show goes off the air, anvils and other blacksmith items will cease the cost and availability spiral. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buzzkill Posted October 6, 2023 Share Posted October 6, 2023 My main complaint with FIF is that it has turned into a gimmicky forge welding/time management competition for the most part with the knife making portion being of secondary or tertiary importance. If you want it to be an actual knife making competition then give people enough time to make a halfway decent knife rather than pile a bunch of extraneous stuff on them and then complain that the handle isn't comfortable. IMO a competition should be a test of someone's best work against other people's best work. FIF is definitely not that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostTownForge Posted October 6, 2023 Share Posted October 6, 2023 Buzzkill, that is a very good point, but I also think professional bladesmiths should do well under pressure, and the first round gives them a good chance to test themselves. As for the final round, I believe that is what you just described, so there is a good balance. But there is always room for improvement in anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted October 6, 2023 Share Posted October 6, 2023 1 hour ago, arkie said: Hopefully, if and when that show goes off the air, anvils and other blacksmith items will cease the cost and availability spiral. Honestly, I don’t see that as a problem. The increased interest in smithing that the show has engendered has led to an increase in the demand for anvils, hammers, tongs, forges, etc, which in turn has led to an increase in the number and quality of manufacturers of those items. Sure, antique anvils in pristine condition are few and far between these days — especially at the low prices some of us remember (even if we forget to adjust them for inflation). However, those have been replaced by everything from the starter anvils from Harbor Freight to the top-quality anvils of Holland or Fontanini. Same goes for all other basic smithing tools. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buzzkill Posted October 6, 2023 Share Posted October 6, 2023 38 minutes ago, GhostTownForge said: As for the final round, I believe that is what you just described, so there is a good balance. I am truly amazed at what some of the competitors have done in 40 hours of work. I've spent that much on far smaller blades. However, I'd really like to see what some of them could do if given 2 or 3 times as much time on the final challenge. Frequently the last round ends up with competitors barely getting something done within parameters rather than their best work. I hear what you are saying about working under pressure, but that show is mostly "you can barely get it done if you make no mistakes and everything goes as you planned" type of pressure. How often have you heard competitors say something like, "If I was at home this knife would go into the scrap pile."? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostTownForge Posted October 6, 2023 Share Posted October 6, 2023 I agree, but I try not to get overly stressed about something I'm not even doing because then I can't enjoy what other people are doing. You do bring up valid points, though. Although, I mainly watch it for the kill tests Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlpservicesinc Posted October 7, 2023 Share Posted October 7, 2023 13 hours ago, arkie said: Frosty, thanks for the heads-up. I'll be sure to not pause on that channel. Hopefully, if and when that show goes off the air, anvils and other blacksmith items will cease the cost and availability spiral. Arkie, why is this??? There are still some good deals out there.. The availabilities of new anvils, swage blocks, 2x72 grinders, forge and all the other items have become prolific if one has the money. The artificial inflation and economy has a larger effect.. 7 years ago Anyang 170lb hammer 9500.00 now 17000. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arkie Posted October 7, 2023 Share Posted October 7, 2023 6 hours ago, jlpservicesinc said: Arkie, why is this??? There are still some good deals out there.. The availabilities of new anvils, swage blocks, 2x72 grinders, forge and all the other items have become prolific if one has the money. The artificial inflation and economy has a larger effect.. 7 years ago Anyang 170lb hammer 9500.00 now 17000. Availability...yes, there may be some good deals out there, but folks seem to be having a harder time finding those deals. Prolific, yes, but the prices for anvils, old and new, post vises, swage blocks, hammers, tongs; the basics etc. have gone up drastically and made them essentially unavailable for many. I'm referencing retail items, not DIY ones. I don't believe inflation has a bearing on those types of things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyBones Posted October 7, 2023 Share Posted October 7, 2023 Jennifer, thanks for that explanation. As for that FIF show i quit watching it as well becuase it got repetitive. I got tired of watching every thing be canister damscus. I started watching becuase they did things like here is a 1972 Buick, or here is a pile of old tools, pick some steel and make a knife. I did like the episodes they did during covid where the judges made the blades at home. I would also watch again if they did the armed forces challenges again. If for no other reason than to support our military. I do wonder if a show that is like FIF but with blacksmiths and not blade smiths would be as popular. Doing stuff like recreating decorative elements, or Viking style cooking chains, or what ever the judges and producers could dream up for that week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted October 7, 2023 Share Posted October 7, 2023 As is always the case, finding good deals is a matter of patience and good bargaining techniques. If you want an anvil next week it'll cost you if you want a steal of a deal it'll take till one comes along, maybe years. The best bargaining tip I can offer is be ready to walk away and let the seller know. Be subtle using it as a threat is likely to make the seller walk. Sure luck works and is a factor but it's not very dependable as your prime method. Deals are out there but unless you come across someone selling to keep from losing the house inflation WILL keep driving prices up just to hold place for sellers. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlpservicesinc Posted October 7, 2023 Share Posted October 7, 2023 Steeled Wrought iron mini draw knife.. Forged at the EAIA (Early American Industrial Association) regional meet. Put on at the Original location of the Moses Wilder Blacksmith shop in Bolton MA. It was sized on a historical example with some design attributes I like.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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