In need of opinions.

[Eric Grubb]

So, my girlfriends's mom has an anvil.

Minimal swayback, painted, foster, rings well, 198lbs. She took it to an antiques dealer, and he told her it was worth 4k, and I may be new, but I know that is absolutely ridiculous. So if y'all don't mind what do you think would be reasonable?

[Buzzkill]

If the antique dealer thinks it's worth $4K, then have your girlfriend's mom offer to sell it to him for $3K and take that money to buy a brand new 275 lb. Refflinghaus (or similar) anvil for around $2300 and pocket the change.

Anvil prices are somewhat location dependent, but a good quality anvil in fair to excellent condition should normally be in the $2.50 to $4.00 per pound range in the US. That one looks closer to "fair" condition than "excellent" to my eye.

[Eric Grubb]

I suppose I wasnt clear, my bad. No I want to buy it from her, but not for that much. I have asked her about it for years and been told she would never part with it basically. I dont have the money to buy a really nice one either.

[ThomasPowers]

William Foster, made in England in 1864, London Pattern, weight stamped in CWT system 1  3  11 which would be 207 pounds; anvils tend to "lose" some weight when weighed with modern equipment and so 198 is well within bounds.

If you do the "Ball Bearing Test" on it, it will show if it has lost it's temper in a structure fire---equivalent to having a blown engine in a used car.

Shows signs of lots of wear; but not abusive wear.  Decent using shape.  Not a Museum piece. Not the most common English Brand here in the USA; but not a rare one either. I have an 1828 William Foster that has massive abusive damage to it that I paid US$15 for back in the 1990's.

Buzzkill has covered values. Might get a bit of a bonus if you could sell it to a ACW reenactor.

Start by offering US$1 a pound; it was the going rate for decades back a few years ago and some folks will still go with it. (Rarer now than back a decade or two, I will admit.)

And that antique dealer has been drinking out of high lead pewter!

[Buzzkill]

You were clear enough.  I was just illustrating that you can get a heavier, higher quality, brand new anvil for significantly less than that estimate.  

If she won't part with it for sentimental reasons then anything you offer will seem like an insult after that bogus estimate.

You'd be better off looking for a different used anvil or improvised anvil than pursuing that one imho.  

Take a look at this thread for some functional, but far less expensive ideas for anvils:

https://www.iforgeiron.com/topic/52308-a-collection-of-improvised-anvils/

 

[Eric Grubb]

I do have a rail anvil at the moment, but that huge chunk of metal just sitting there makes me drool every time I see it. I know I can get something functional for a lot less, but just knowing its sitting there bugs me.

[ThomasPowers]

Towards the upper end of a standard shop size back in the day but not a huge industrial one.

Possible wedding present? (Note that buying a new NIMBA is far, far, *FAR* cheaper than going into a bad marriage! OTOH; when I was engaged and dirt poor I went to a garage sale with my fiancee because it had a 165# Peter Wright for US$100, as I was drooling over it but thinking the cost, my fiancee told me "I think you should buy it!"    Anvil and wife are still with me 36 years later, TODAY!)

[Buzzkill]

37 minutes ago, Eric Grubb said:

I do have a rail anvil at the moment, but that huge chunk of metal just sitting there makes me drool every time I see it. I know I can get something functional for a lot less, but just knowing its sitting there bugs me.

Any chance she will let you use it but she still retains ownership of it while you make and sell things to buy your own, or maybe make things for her until she says you are paid off?

[dickb]

Be polite and respectful, but don't get involved with the girlfriend's mom. It's clear the  mother is not being honest .

 

1 hour ago, Buzzkill said:

If the antique dealer thinks it's worth $4K, then have your girlfriend's mom offer to sell it to him for $3K and take that money to buy a brand new 275 lb. Refflinghaus (or similar) anvil for around $2300 and pocket the change.

Anvil prices are somewhat location dependent, but a good quality anvil in fair to excellent condition should normally be in the $2.50 to $4.00 per pound range in the US. That one looks closer to "fair" condition than "excellent" to my eye.

 

[Frosty]

16 minutes ago, dickb said:

don't get involved with the girlfriend's mom

Good advice unless you WANT to end up in letters to the editor in Penthouse. The lady has too much emotional investment in it, leave it be. If you REALLY can't stand to see it sitting there offer to help protect it and cover it. 

Better yet, let YOUR emotional investment go, it's just a tool, find another one. Make an improvised anvil, learn the basics, sell practice products: coat hooks, bottle openers, etc. and save up for a new one. 

Maybe if the girlfriend becomes the Fiance it might come your way at the wedding. 

Frosty The Lucky.

[JHCC]

If the thought of ultimately inheriting the anvil makes you work harder to keep the relationship solid, so much the better!

[BIGGUNDOCTOR]

$4k is dreaming. Tell her to take it to the antiques dealer and see what he offers to buy it for.

You can get a new JHM for far less. I picked up a used 125# JHM and it is a great anvil. ANVIL BRAND sells them.

 

 

[Anachronist58]

7 hours ago, ThomasPowers said:

Anvil and wife are still with me 36 years later, TODAY!)

Congratulations, Thomas, you all (anvil makes three) have six years on Sheila and me. 

If you are serious with this relationship, let that anvil go:  The repercussions could last for years, need ye ask me how I know?  Edit:  can you kiss the anvil good night and sleep with it?

Robert Taylor

Edited August 6, 2020 by Anachronist58
talked it over with wife

[Eric Grubb]

9 hours ago, Buzzkill said:

Any chance she will let you use it but she still retains ownership of it while you make and sell things to buy your own, or maybe make things for her until she says you are paid off?

I have thought of that, but I'm not sure if she would go for it. I will ask her about that but also offer her what I believe os a fair price for it. If she refuses either I'll just write it off and keep searching for something better than my little rail.

8 hours ago, Frosty said:

Better yet, let YOUR emotional investment go, it's just a tool, find another one. Make an improvised anvil, learn the basics, sell practice products: coat hooks, bottle openers, etc. and save up for a new one. 

Thats pretty much what I assume I'm going to have to do anyway, but if there's a chance I have to try.

[Glenn]

Leave the drama behind and use your efforts to start looking for another anvil.  Use TPAAAT to your advantage.  Read the improvised anvils thread for ideas that you can use.

No one asks if the product was made on a certain brand anvil and then offered to pay more.  They want the product and the lowest price that you will accept for the sale.

[pnut]

Save up about six or eight hundred dollars and buy a new anvil. Keep using your rail until then. I used mine for well over a year before getting an anvil and I went cheap and bought a 66 pound eBay anvil because I have to keep about 80% of my smithy in my SUV. 

Pnut

[ThomasPowers]

Need to make fast getaways?  I found quieting the anvil helps delay the "pitchforks and torches" response...

[Frosty]

Yeah, so true.  However if you have a Soderfors you can stop the pitchfork and torch crowd in their tracks. You can't carry weapons with both hands over your ears. 

Frosty The Lucky.

[Marc1]

I heard the "I'll never part with it" many times, and generally from people who inherited an anvil in poor to dreadful shape and believe it to be the bees knees. 

I remember offering to a local mechanic, a decent price for a very large PW, up in the 300 kg,  with a massive indentation in the face only to be told the proverbial " never" 

Not long afterwards, a road passed through the property that belonged to his father, they came into good money from a government forced acquisition and the anvil was forgotten and piled up with the rest of the shop's junk with destination unknown. 

There isn't a worse seller, or buyer for that matter ... than an ignorant one. 

[TheWanderingLlama]

I am pretty astounded at the asking price for vintage anvils.  Of course, this example is particularly astounding.

I did a quick spreadsheet the other day for new anvils that people generally agreed were good value brands and prices ranged from $5.60 to $8.13 per pound. Smaller anvils tended to be higher per pound generally.  Many of the asking prices for used anvils are in (or above) a new anvil.

I am looking for a tool, not a collectors item - so I am not willing to pay for history but understand some people are. 

I have pretty much given up on trying to purchase a vintage anvil that has already been “found.”  It is either find one on my own from a person who is happy to see it go to a good home and will take lower price - or buy new.

I had a good conversation with a local smith as part of my TPAAAT’ing.  He had an anvil that he used regularly for several years that had been repaired with welded mild steel faceplate as well as the horn having cracked off and rewelded.  Since he used the anvil and it was working for him, it was valuable to him.  But it was not worth his price of $3 per pound to me.  Particularly when I am in a day trip from a few places that sell quality new anvil at $6 per pound. 
Despite the the deal being a bust, he gave me a ton of great information - so it was a great connection to make. 

[JHCC]

21 minutes ago, TheWanderingLlama said:

I am looking for a tool, not a collectors item

Reminds me of something my late friend Karl said to me once about car shopping: "A car is a tool, not an extension of your ego." A good lesson in seeking out something that addresses practical needs, not something that provides a fleeting emotional satisfaction.

[ThomasPowers]

A big part of TPAAAT is talking to EVERYONE not just folks you think might have an anvil---like blacksmiths, welders, farriers, etc.  They all know the going prices and use anvils and generally WON'T SELL CHEAP!   What you want to find are all the hidden anvils in the back of garages and basements that the "owners" don't have a use for and might sell cheap---especially GET OFF THE NET!  Folks on the net can do a quick search and find that "an anvil on ebay sold for US$20 a pound"---and not understanding that it was a rare collectors item think their old Vulcan must be worth at least half that---or more!

My best anvil buy in central Ohio was from a 20's? guy selling greasy car parts at the South High Fleamarket.  He had *nothing* I would have even fished out of a dumpster for free; but he "Howdy'd" me and so I told him about looking for a large anvil.  Turns out his Uncle had a large anvil he wanted to sell and so after the fleamarket shut down I went over to look at it.  469# Fisher for a Blacker powerhammer in *mint* condition.  The owner told me his neighbor had once offered $350 for it and he had turned him down.  I asked him if he would take it now and he said yes!  Used his cherry picker to pick it up and run it over to my pickup and off I went!

* Talk to Everyone! (Most recent one I found down here was from a 92 year old lady at church!)

* Get off the net!

* Have cash to hand!  (A great deal may have a half life of minutes!)

* Be prepared to take it as soon as the deal is done!

* Always ask if they have any other smithing stuff they can use to sweeten the deal!

It turns out that a goodly percentage of my ongoing students end up with "family anvils"

And remember: per sq mile there were MORE anvils in cities than in the countryside!

[TheWanderingLlama]

1 hour ago, JHCC said:

"A car is a tool, not an extension of your ego."

I chuckled at that one. That is my attitude about cars as well.  Cars wear out faster than most tools and are certainly the most expensive tool that most people are ever going to buy.

Not begrudging car collectors as I see the value in that as a hobby (just like having an anvil with history) - just not my thing.

[ThomasPowers]

I've been amazed at all the folks I've worked with that had to have a big SUV while I'm doing ok with a small used 4 cyl pickup.  They use theirs for going grocery shopping and I use mine for moving coal, anvils scrap steel, wood,...

There are a lot of silly ads trying to make you think that a "BIG" fancy car makes you "bigger" so to speak. Silly; as we all know that the size of your anvil is the correct correlation!

[TheWanderingLlama]

21 minutes ago, ThomasPowers said:

It turns out that a goodly percentage of my ongoing students end up with "family anvils"

This is where my current little one came from.  As suggested, I have ceased even browsing on eBay/Craigslist. Things are laughable. 

Hoping to get some small gift items made up as conversation starters for the holidays. Many of my family and extended family have family farms or are in the trades. Fertile ground I hope.