lyuv Posted November 27, 2017 Share Posted November 27, 2017 COLORS! Well, sort of. I realized that I can't tell the different colors of HOT iron - red, orange, yellow and white. It all look the same - orange, but at slight different degrees of brightness. However - I"m NOT color blind. I DO see all these colors when printed or displayed on screens. I was also thoroughly tested for color blindness. The problem is only when looking at HOT item. Maybe (just a guess), I get blinded by the strong IR radiation. Does anyone know about this phenomenon? Heard of someone with this condition? It's a real problem for a blacksmith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John McPherson Posted November 27, 2017 Share Posted November 27, 2017 Bright lighting tends to wash out the colors. Every try to read a phone screen in full sunlight? When you get an eye exam, is the office lit up like a tanning booth, or dim and subdued? Are you forging in open air and bright daylight, or under bright artificial lights? A metal bucket on it's side, painted inside with flat black paint, may help in that case. Traditional bladesmiths did their heat treatment after dark, or with the shutters drawn during the day, to better distinguish colors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desmond Redmon Posted November 27, 2017 Share Posted November 27, 2017 2 hours ago, John McPherson said: Traditional bladesmiths did their heat treatment after dark, or with the shutters drawn during the day, to better distinguish colors. Agreed, when not able to find a dark corner most old portable forges I have seen had optional shield that would enable the smith to dim the area around the actual forge itself. Though the way to tell if you are susceptible to UV etc is to visit a welding shop a buy a low number cutting lense for people using oxy-acetylene torches. They usually carry shades down to a #3 which should be a good one to try for just a couple of bucks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arkie Posted November 27, 2017 Share Posted November 27, 2017 Welding glasses and hoods are for UV, not IR. Forges and hot steel emit predominantly IR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted November 27, 2017 Share Posted November 27, 2017 There are also fairly cheap optical pyrometers on the market; take the piece out of the forge, shoot it and *know* the temp---to a higher degree than the rest of us just eyeballing it! You may be able to train your eyes that way too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arftist Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 All of the above. We are forging 385 bronze right now and either we turn off the lights when heating the bars or they split like too cold wrought iron. I know from the last time I did this though, that a lazer guided digital pyrometer ( arround $50) will also enable me to stay within forging temp easily. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desmond Redmon Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 21 hours ago, arkie said: Welding glasses and hoods are for UV, not IR. Forges and hot steel emit predominantly IR. Your comment made me go back to the safety training book my son received in his tech high school. Which did not list the facets of passive welding lenses only auto darkening (Hobart doesn't manufacture their own apprently). Which lead me round about to Millerwelds.com and a specific quote "A passive lens helmet uses UV- and IR-coated dark-tinted glass with a fixed shade value, usually #10. The passive helmet is worn in the up position while the electrode, gun or torch is positioned. Then with a quick nod or snap of the neck, the operator flips the helmet into position immediately before striking an arc." When I was practicing forge welding mild steel, I made 100 2.5" rings (from 3" rings left over from practicing forming on the horn), the first day I did about 20 rings at welding temp before my eyes gave out and I could only see a spot on my point of focus, since I hadn't figured out to glance at the metal and just watched it heat through a hole in the coal... Next morning I woke up with gummy eyes and felt like I had sand in my eyes. After that I tried my auto darkening welding helmet but the forge didn't produce enough to darken the helmet (minimum shade 9) and I tried a shade 5 O/A cutting lens and it was a bit dark but left my eyes intact the next day. All in all for a single weld I'm not bothering, for a bunch of welds I'll wear a set of goggles but I think shade 3 or 4 would be better than 5's. Though I know there are several different types out there and after reading today I see there are green lenses for IR, the black and gold generally available at welding supplies are both UV and IR protected according to OHSA and manufacturers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lyuv Posted November 28, 2017 Author Share Posted November 28, 2017 1 hour ago, Desmond Redmon said: ...Next morning I woke up with gummy eyes and felt like I had sand in my eyes. I had exactly the same experience several times. I always thought a spark or something got in my eye without me noticing. But now there is a new possibility - an IR induced eye damage!!! Is there a doctor in the crowd? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 Build a hood over the forge for shade or put a shadow box under it so you can judge temperature. Most importantly do NOT stare into the fire! Keep an eye on the work work with regular glances NOT by watching it. Watching a strong IR source can or will eventually cause cataracts and cost you your sight or expensive operations to restore it partially. Tinted safety glasses designated IR protection will save your eyes but adds another obstacle to compensate for judging temp by color. Not a big deal it just takes practice and it exacerbates the effects of ambient light. Whatever you have to do it beats being blind. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will W. Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 18 minutes ago, Frosty said: Whatever you have to do it beats being blind. Wise words, to be sure. I know the feeling, Desmond. Back when i did a lot of TIG welding, i got flashed PLENTY of times. Sometimes i was welding on very thin stainless, and so i had my machine running at 10 amps, full throttle, so you were typically running between 3 - 7 amps. A lot of auto darkening helmets wont even shade at that low of output, so you get flashed even with your hood down. After that happened half a dozen times, i switched to a fixed shade. Anyways, do it enough in one day (especially if youre looking right at it when it arcs) and youll know it that night or the next day. Ive woken up a few times in the middle of the night with the feeling that my eyes are on fire, hurts so bad you can barely open them. My welding instructor always taught me that if it ever happens, put a cold wet washcloth over your eyes and wait it out. Its all you can really do. Its not fun, and not something you want to happen to you. Allow me to reiterate what Frosty said, DONT stare at the fire. Otherwise, youll end up with a whole gang of floaters like me. Elusive little buggers. There always there, but you never can look right at them... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 Ooooh, flash blind! I've woken with eyelids feeling like they were made of sand paper and only able to see shapes in the glare. The second time I painted the snaps on my jacket black and made a hood for the back of my welding shield so arcs behind me couldn't reflect off the inside of my shield lens. Got floaters too. Got very VERY careful about not getting flashed, auto darkening lenses rule! Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will W. Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 Frosty, just edited my post, read my short story about auto darkening helmets. I dont trust them unless im SMAW or MIG welding anymore. We always called it flash syndrome or arc syndrome. It is unpleasent. I second the part about getting flashed from behind as well, its nearly as bad as lookig right at it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daswulf Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 My description of welder a flash would be it feels like your eyes have a sun burn. Guess that's kind of what it is. That was a very bad two days. I'm Way more cautious now. I purchased shade 5 safety glasses for forge welding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desmond Redmon Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 8 minutes ago, Daswulf said: I'm Way more cautious now. That is exactly why Arkie's post made me reread the safety handbooks... I don't need anymore days like that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anvil Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 I've certainly got flashburn whilst welding. But never in all these years had anything close in my coal forge. Got a few floaters but the doc said maybe cateracts in 10+ years. I'm 70. What can I say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ric Furrer Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 I recall a shade three is for general forge work. http://www.thefabricator.com/article/safety/selecting-the-best-lens-for-welders-eye-protection Ric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 I advise reading the thread about this here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arkie Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 Floaters and cataracts are not the same thing and are not caused by the same things... research it..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anvil Posted November 29, 2017 Share Posted November 29, 2017 I would expect no better info from my VA doctor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arkie Posted November 29, 2017 Share Posted November 29, 2017 My wife and I both have floaters and cataracts. We HAVE researched it extensively. Inasmuch as it's difficult to determine one's true meaning in internet dialogue, Anvil, I hope your comment was not meant to be sarcastic. Have a good day! Forge on! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted November 29, 2017 Share Posted November 29, 2017 I'm a diabetic living in NM; floaters and cataracts are SOP... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arkie Posted November 29, 2017 Share Posted November 29, 2017 At least cataracts can be more easily remedied for some than floaters. Having both is a double bummer!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobasaurus Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 I use shade 5 welding glasses, then judge temperature by comparing the steel color to the tip of a thermocouple I have in the forge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anvil Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 On 11/29/2017 at 11:29 AM, arkie said: My wife and I both have floaters and cataracts. We HAVE researched it extensively. Inasmuch as it's difficult to determine one's true meaning in internet dialogue, Anvil, I hope your comment was not meant to be sarcastic. Have a good day! Forge on! Absolutely not meant as sarcasm. Just a statement of fact as to what we vets learn to expect from the VA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arkie Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 No offense taken. I have heard many horror stories from vets about problems there, more than the pleasant experiences. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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