Round v. Square Face

[Steven Lancaster]

As a new comer to this field, when I look around I see a lot of hammers with round or square faces. However, I am curious as to whether it matters much when actually in use. For example, I found a Swedish hammer in a round and square variety (see links below). Does it actually matter? I understand that a Brian B. rounding hammer has all the different angles you can use, but for a "regular" hammer, is there a difference when using or just a matter of personal preference?

links removed

Thanks!

[arkie]

Either face will work...personal preference.  If you want to do some top fullering by tilting the hammer head on the stock, then obviously the square face is what you need to use, otherwise you'll leave round hammer marks that don't spread the stock uniformly.  Look at some of Brian's videos to see how he uses the square hammer head to fuller his work.

[C-1ToolSteel]

What Arkie said. I, actually, am in the minority that prefers a round face hammer for my go-to. No reason not to buy more than one...

[ThomasPowers]

Octagonal!

[Latticino]

Personally I like rectangular faces for all hammer faces that are not  the ball on a ball peen, rounding face on a rounding hammer, or cross, straight or diagonal peen (though arguably these last are rectangular in crossection).  I prefer rectangular because I find it easier to dress this kind of face to the profile I need for more or less aggressive forging.

[Steven Lancaster]

The face dressing aspect is really important. I struggle enough with that, much less the rounder face. 

C-1 do you find any advantages for the round face, or just like having less tools around (and/or can get the job done with just one)?

[Frosty]

Both shapes have their uses but for the most part it's preference of the user that's the difference. For the most part my hammers have round faces and peins but I have a couple square ones, these work nicely for close work, say dressing a shoulder. However the round faces work much better for texturing and the like.

Frosty The Lucky.

[Alan Evans]

7 hours ago, Steven Lancaster said:

snip... Does it actually matter? snip...Thanks!

Nope!

Use whatever you need or whatever you have to hand to get the job done. The tool is not the important thing...the piece at the end of the process is.

Alan

[Mark Ling]

with a round face, you can do a square grind...Like on the rounding hammers, lots are made from round stock, but you can still tilt the hammer and use it like a fuller. How? because of the grind.

Not the best picture, just one I got from a quick google search. If you need a better example, I can take some pictures of my own.

                                                                                                                                                  Littleblacksmith

[C-1ToolSteel]

When I don't need a square face, I just like to use a round face because I can hold the hammer at any position on the steel and not worry about corners where it is dressed differently.

[Steven Lancaster]

This has been really helpful - thanks everyone!

[arkie]

If you grind a hammer face to change the shape, be sure to keep it cool!!!  If the hammer is heat treated, hard grinding can remove the temper resulting in a softer face.  I never grind more than what is comfortable to the hand touch and move around the face, stopping when it gets too warm and let it cool down.

[SJS]

Clifton Ralph tells a colorful anology about how steel is just like a cow pie.  (Roy Bloom has also done some videos expalaining this concept visually;-)  If you smack a cow pie with a stick, it will divide and move perpendicular to the stick.  If you drop a bowling ball on a cow pie, it will move evenly in all directions away from the center of the ball.  If you drop a brick in a cow pie, it will mainly move off the long side, some off the short and very little off the corners.  If you translate that into hammer faces, you know how the steel will want to move under the hammer... A round face, or ball pein, or a rounding hammer will tend to push the material equally all the way around the face. Very useful for texturing, for bending, for blending, and for setting a bevel on an edge. IMHO ;-)  A cross pein, straight pein, or handled fuller will move the metal perpendicular to the face of the pein. Very useful for forming fish tails, axe heads, hammer eye checks, a round boss, and some types of edges or bevels...  A square or rectangular face, like on most traditional blacksmiths hammers, like many cross peins, a Brazeal style Rounding hammer, a French pattern, most Swedish pattern, a Czech, or a Hofi style hammer. I prefer a square face, I like to forge a lot of shoulders, and necks, and stems.  I use the edges of the face a lot.  A lot of modern hammers have a round crown machined into the face, weither it is a round faced, square faced, or hexagonal, or octagonal.  With the face dressed that way you don't get hammer marks from the edge of the hammer, you get divots from the face being rounded too much, IMHO.  Many of my hammers have a fairly agressive crown on them, but it is a quare crown. On my forging hammers I roll the face top to bottom fairly agressively, and then I roll the edges lightly side to side.  This allows me to draw fairly agressively, and still use the edges of the face to establish a strong shoulder for a neck or a stem.  Lots of different tools, and lots of different style of work.  If you watch Hofi work, and Brain Brazeal you can see how much steel can be moved with a hand hammer.  For both men it is a combination of the shapes of the hammer, and the technique used to focus the energy from the hammer in a smaller more efficient area.  Another of Clifton's Concepts: is VARP, which stands for Volume, Area, Resistance, and Power.  There is an interesting relationship between the variables.  Increase the Volume = more Resistance = which requires more Power... 2" Square stock has 4x the Resistance of 1" square stock at the same temp, and 14x the Resistance of 1/2" square stock... Reduce the Area affected = less Resistance = less Power required, or greater efficiency.  So forging over the edge of the anvil  with the edge of the hammer, moves more steel, because you are focussing your Power in a smaller area, so you get more work done... You use the same concept when your "Feeding the Baby" on the edge of the power hammer's dies (pallets;-) You can also reduce Resistance by increasing the forging temp, most steels have the least Resistance at the high end of their forging range, usually Bright Orange or Yellow forging temp.

Lots of people through the years have used all kinds of different hammers for different reasons.  Find out what you like, I use a lot of different hammers when I am forging at home with a huge selection to choose from. Phillip Simmons apparently used a ball pein hammer for most things, lot of ways to get the work done.  But some ways look more effecient than other;-)  YMMV

[Steven Lancaster]

SJS - this is really helpful. The mental visualization of the various hammer faces really helps. If I am understanding it correctly - say I am drawing a flat taper (two sided) on 1/2 square. The rounding hammer should move the metal faster because smaller surface area (of course over the horn would be even faster), but will also have to clean/dress the edges more due to the side squish (technical term). Is this correct?

I like the idea of a hammer with different levels of aggression on the edges. Might have to play around with one of the old shop hammers...

[Frosty]

You've got it pretty close to right Steven, a turning hammer is no more directional than a flat pein, it just concentrates the same amount of energy in a smaller area so the effect is greater. I draw square or flat tapers with the turning pein all the time and doing it over the horn or a radiused edge moves more efficiently still.

Yes, squish or smoosh are acceptable blacksmith terms.  Beginners tend to lean towards wonky smoosh.

Frosty The Lucky.

[SJS]

Experiment!!! Find things that work for you...  It doesn't hurt to watch guys who can REALLY move metal...  Most blacksmiths can move metal, but some move it better, faster, and smoother than others...  Again I recommend looking at Uri Hofi's Eronomic hammer technique, and Brian Brazeal's Why I use a Rounding hammer videos.  Both men use a fairly aggressive approach to the anvil, and using the edges of the anvil, and the edges of the hammer.  The trick in blacksmithing is to get as much done with each heat, as efficiently as you can.  Don't be afraid to make it a bit ugly, before you smooth it out.  Stand up, practice your hammer technique, trust that you are doing what you want to do to the steel, and watch the steel transform under the hammer, and adjust... 

[seldom (dick renker)]

good info on hammers but i really like the cow pie description

[Hammerfall]

Keep the advice rollin.

[JHCC]

On 2/22/2017 at 9:27 PM, SJS said:

I recommend looking at Uri Hofi's Eronomic hammer technique, and Brian Brazeal's Why I use a Rounding hammer videos.  

Alec Steele has a really exceptional video on forging tapers HERE in which he does a great job explaining and demonstrating the concepts behind Brian Brazeal's hammer technique. 

[Andrew Martin]

Technicus Joe also recently posted a video (entitled "Why Blacksmithing Sucks", IIRC) that thoroughly explains faster techniques of drawing and why some work better than others, etc. It's kind of a long video, but it's very, very informative; I found it very helpful in understanding how fuller shapes are more effective than flat shapes when drawing.

[Frank Turley]

I've used a round faced hammer since 1963; still doing it.

[swedefiddle]

Good Morning, Stephen

Purchase a small container of 'Play-Doh' or Plasticene. You will find that it moves identical to Steel, except you can hold it in your hands. You can figure out how to Forge any shape and how much parent material was used to get there.

Neil

[arkie]

The Plasticene is great stuff.  We have a member in our group who likes to show new smiths how to taper, round, set down, etc. quickly and easily without having to spend time burning coal.  Easy to recycle/reshape and do it again.  Then they get to do it with steel after he demo's it.  Kinda backfired on him once though...he got distracted and left it on the forge table near the fire and looked down to see a puddle in the coal...not good.

[Lonewolf79]

On 2/28/2017 at 10:47 PM, JHCC said:

Alec Steele has a really exceptional video on forging tapers HERE in which he does a great job explaining and demonstrating the concepts behind Brian Brazeal's hammer technique. 

Is it wrong to be jealous of an 18 year old brit 

[JHCC]

4 hours ago, Lonewolf79 said:

Is it wrong to be jealous of an 18 year old brit 

Yes, except when he's showing off his power hammers.