Buzzkill Posted December 14, 2016 Share Posted December 14, 2016 Northwoodsman, you were given a couple of good suggestions for starting steel. I don't consider your age to be a drawback at all here. We have members younger than you, but the difference is they have done their research and then started with the basics. What I do think is that you have a lot of reading to do in order to understand the processes involved in what you want to accomplish. This forum has a wealth of information, but you have to take the time to explore it to get the most out of it. I strongly suggest you read through the knife making and heat treating sections of the forum. After you get the terminology and understanding of what makes a good short blade down then it's time to make some. Only after getting to this point should you spend much time focusing on making your own sword. I'm not saying this to be discouraging. I also intend to make my own sword some day. I've been making knives as a hobby for a few years now and have yet to attempt a sword, although that may be something I do within the next 6 months or so. The reason I haven't tried yet is that making knives taught me how much I didn't know. Anybody can take a bar of steel and put a handle on it and an edge on it that will cut things. That is not a sword; it's a sword shaped object. If you want to make a replica that could function as well or better than the original it was based on then there are a lot of things that simply must be done right with very little margin of error. Getting any of them wrong will make it hard to wield or hold on to in the least case, and potentially fail catastrophically in use and hurt you or others around you in the worst case. If you don't have the cash to buy the suggested books, then read a lot on here and see if your local library can get the books you want to read through the ILL system. BTW the part about the temper, flexibility, and being bent out of shape as well as "center of percussion" are terms you need to know and understand well before attempting a long blade of any kind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted December 14, 2016 Share Posted December 14, 2016 If you want to do this to make a living as this look into the ABS American Bladesmith Society; they run schools and also a certification program. As that program includes some time in grade requirements getting started early can help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted December 14, 2016 Share Posted December 14, 2016 Pack a lunch and a cold drink, pull up a chair, and spend some quality time reading about sharp and pointy things. As of December 2016, there are 55,400 posts in the Bladesmithing Section of IForgeIron. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northwoodsman Posted December 14, 2016 Author Share Posted December 14, 2016 Ok will do Glenn and buzzkill I do know the terminology I just miss read the information. I laughed at myself when I read that because like I said i know both terms for that. I may upload a video of what I have made so far and what my shop looks like. (Granted messy right now but plans to clean it up in the future) would that be of some help to you see where improvements can be made and what I should keep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C-1ToolSteel Posted December 14, 2016 Share Posted December 14, 2016 There's nothing wrong with having swords for a goal, but like everyone else is saying, you need to start with the basics. A good s hook is in my opinion much more impressive than a really bad sword. If you want to be "good" at anything, you have to do something that others are not doing. If people could just go out and make a sword, than anybody with a DIY mindset would be making them. The thing that others are not doing is practice. That is THE reason that not everybody plays an instrument, not everybody cooks, and not everybody does blacksmithing. It doesn't matter how good of a teacher you have. You have to learn hammer control. You can't just have someone tell you to hold your hammer a certain way and all the sudden you have hammer control down. You have to PRACTICE! Kudos for having the determination to take on such a task. You'll get there if you PRACTICE! BTW, you can't say "I'm going to use if for chopping through brush" as an excuse for poor heat treating. Once I was using a cheap sword for that very job, and the minute it struck a fairly solid branch, it shattered into tree pieces. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tubalcain2 Posted December 14, 2016 Share Posted December 14, 2016 15 minutes ago, C-1ToolSteel said: Once I was using a cheap sword for that very job, and the minute it struck a fairly solid branch, it shattered into tree pieces. maybe you should have known better.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buzzkill Posted December 14, 2016 Share Posted December 14, 2016 22 minutes ago, C-1ToolSteel said: BTW, you can't say "I'm going to use if for chopping through brush" as an excuse for poor heat treating. Once I was using a cheap sword for that very job, and the minute it struck a fairly solid branch, it shattered into tree pieces. Wait, was it the brush or the sword that shattered into tree pieces? Perhaps a steel sword rather than a wooden sword wood have been in order I thought tree pieces was the whole point of chopping brush. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc1 Posted December 14, 2016 Share Posted December 14, 2016 Hi North ... why don't you just make a sword? I built a house at age 14. Everyone told me I was mad. Still standing this days 50 years later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northwoodsman Posted December 14, 2016 Author Share Posted December 14, 2016 Very impressive marc1 see I had this idea for a sword from a book that I read called kingdoms dawn by chuck black. I have an idea for it but I wanted a war ready blade so I cams here to seek help on what would make it war ready. And beautiful to look at so that is why I have not done it yet. For c-1 toolsteel what I want to do is just have it go cut down small trees of at most 2 inches and stinging nettles in summer. Along with my wanting to learn how to use a sword like in the past (I do know the movie stuff is made up and I want the tradisinal trainin) so if a knight would have carried a sword they would be very proud of this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPH Posted December 15, 2016 Share Posted December 15, 2016 Northwoodsman.. I hate to be a nudge...however I am still waiting for you to post ANY of your work...you talked the talk..now it is time to walk the walk... I showed you my Bonefides.. Where are yours?? And just to make things even more interesting here is one I finished a couple of hours ago... We are waiting... Awe us as you said you could do.. JPH (the Cantankerous Old Man) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turbo7 Posted December 15, 2016 Share Posted December 15, 2016 Hello Nortwoodsman, mate imo the best steel for you to use for this project is mild steel, simply because it's easy to work. To make a sword shaped object out of mild steel...not so easy, but a lot easier than a steel that JPH would use mate. Have a go at it, shouldn't take long, don't worry about the grind yet just get it straight first (don't mean to dishearten you here but straight enough is NOT straight.) When you do get it straight...ok that's enough, post a pic when you get it this far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buzzkill Posted December 15, 2016 Share Posted December 15, 2016 One more thing here, Northwoodsman. In the topic title you refer to good steel for swords and perfect grinds. You can't make a good sword out of the wrong steel for sure, but there are quite a few alloys out there that can be made into good swords. However, the focus shouldn't be on the steel. It's the craftsman who creates perfect grinds or executes the correct heat treatment for the object he's making. This may be where there is a bit of a disconnect. No matter how "good" the starting steel is, a person who does a poor job forging, grinding/filing, and heat treating will never end up with a good sword. That's why we were generally giving you suggestions that focus more on you and developing your abilities rather than on the steel itself. Once your skills are up to the task there are a number of medium/high carbon steels that you would be able to successfully create a good functional sword from, but that won't happen over night or from reading the best instructive books out there or even from a few sessions at the anvil. The books are highly desirable, and the hammer/anvil time is critical if you want to forge a sword rather than do stock removal, but as was mentioned before there is no substitute for practice - and lots of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted December 15, 2016 Share Posted December 15, 2016 Perhaps it's time to do my standard test for folks making swords based on historical models: Northwoodsman; How much should the finished sword weigh to be an appropriate medieval styled war sword? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted December 15, 2016 Share Posted December 15, 2016 Okay Northwoodsman, you're a young adult how about acting like an adult. You've been responded to by one of the premier bladesmiths in America and all you have is poor rhetoric way above your knowledge level. Have you posted one picture of your work or just yammered more. Hmmm? I've kept out of it and we actually seem to owe you one for getting Jim to post pics of his recent work. I'm afraid you're a typical kid dreaming way above your current abilities. We all did it, some still do. I'm not going to hold being kid against you and sincerely hope to see good work from you in the future but right now you're asking questions a kid who hasn't done any real research asks. Do you even know how to do proper research or do they give participation awards in your school? If they give participation awards have your parents enroll you in a school that makes kids repeat courses they fail. It isn't your fault the school system is the way it is, we don't hold their failings against you. However we do expect you to perform and not bother people with fantasies. Either put up or shut up. If you've made blades post some pics, if not, then stop jackjawing and start making. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northwoodsman Posted December 15, 2016 Author Share Posted December 15, 2016 The sword should weigh roughly around 2-3 lb for the normal ones that we think of the larger two handed swords are 4-6 lb and the great sword just a liit larger. The balance point of the sword should be close to the hilt. most of the hilts were piened attached/(meaning attached by hitting the remaing of the tang sitcking out dow flat to lick it in) that or pins and leather or cord wrapped like the katana wakizashi and the odatich. also could have just leather wraps. most swords have to points on the blade where when hit thoughs points tend not to vibrate as much (in back and fourth motions are not as exessive mostly just faster and closer distance). how do I add pictures to my posts so that I can show what ive made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northwoodsman Posted December 15, 2016 Author Share Posted December 15, 2016 how do I add pictures to my posts so that I can show what ive made. (granted not all of it some was destroyed in my forge due to having to help out my parents with other things that moment) so whay is remaining and inprogress (all need an edge better than what they have on currently). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted December 15, 2016 Share Posted December 15, 2016 Balance point depends on the style of the sword: Falchion vs grosse messer, vs 13th century, vs 7 century; but I am *very* happy you have the weight correct! I've had people tell me as much as 30 pounds before---which is why I use it as a touchstone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daswulf Posted December 15, 2016 Share Posted December 15, 2016 1 hour ago, Northwoodsman said: how do I add pictures to my posts so that I can show what ive made. Click on that blue ( click to choose files) after the paper clip. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northwoodsman Posted December 15, 2016 Author Share Posted December 15, 2016 I have watched many hours of documentries on swords and I follow atleast two people that know something about swords and I learned quite abit from them. along with the the swords I based the first few parts on just european swords. i know that other designs are diffrent, one day ill look into thoughs types of swords but right now just the common one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northwoodsman Posted December 15, 2016 Author Share Posted December 15, 2016 Here is my work so far the nicer works got melted by accident. I'm still a little mad about wrecking them. The hook is my most recent work done and the knives were kinda just put away for a while so they don't look as nice. But the first one the third and fourth do have an ok edge on them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 OK if you are mad at wrecking your "nicer" items; just think of how you will feel messing up a sword that you have spent *weeks* working on. I strongly suggest you work on smaller items till you get good, the stuff you have displayed looks to be in the "shiv" quality zone and not what you want when you do swordwork. Remember a badly made sword can maim or kill friends accidentally. It's actually faster to learn the basics on knives than swords as the cycle time is much much faster on knives. My suggestion is to take an automotive coil spring and have it cut down the sides to make a bunch of ( pieces and then forge all of them into the same knife shape one by one working to make the next one *BETTER* in all the ways possible. Do a heat treat on them and break them to see what is the best heat treat process for that steel---should be able to nail that down before the blades get really really nice and so not need to break the pretty ones. If you can do one a week; by this time next year you should be doing work that folks are impressed with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beech Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 No discouragement is intended. They just want to make sure that you don't end up really discouraging yourself, or worse. It looks to me like you all have already made a pretty good start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 What beech said we are trying to get you *good* as fast as possible. Unfortunately there is a lot of effort involved to get there. Just like Football, fancy shoes don't help unless the practices are done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPH Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 Hello: I agree with Brother Thomas.."shiv/shank" quality on the "knives"... However that wall/coat hook is half way decent, but you need hammer control..make a few 100 more of those and by then you should have a good grasp on hammer use... Get away from that re-bar...that is the worse stuff out there.... JPH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 44 minutes ago, JPH said: Get away from that re-bar...that is the worse stuff out there.... JPH Yes, we can safely say that rebar is NOT good steel for swords. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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