Files

[Forging Carver]

Hi,

  I was gonna put this in bladesmithing, but I figured files are used in other smithing projects as well. So I was recomended Nicholson files, but I am not sure which to get. There are so many types, sizes, and cuts. Can somebody tell me what are some good files to start out with? Like what cut, roughness, size, and if flat or half round?

  Thanks

[j.w.s.]

Any and every.. from needle files to double cut bastard and half rounds. You'll only ever need the one you don't have.

J

[Frosty]

That depends entirely on what you wish to do. A rasp removes material FAST, a double cut leaves a smoother surface gut it's still pretty rough. I don't recall how the tooth size is rated but they run from rough to fine. then you get into single cut files commonly known as draw files which run from serious business coarse to baby butt fine.

What shape do you need? There are hundreds if not thousands of different file shapes and purposes. A steam locomotive shop has it's range of files, as does the local furniture hardware maker, not to forget the locksmith, jeweler and think of the watchmaker's files. How about blades? There are files for every basic style blade, you need one type set to make oh hunting and skinning call them basic utility knives. How about the knives on a harvester? That's another world of shapes and cuts. Surgical instruments probably a smaller category but one of it's own nonetheless.

Die makers riffles, how could I forget the riffles?

Files and file making is a world unto itself. I won't go on for now. But you asked a general question with literally tens of thousands of possible answers but didn't tell us what you want to use the tings for. It's like asking a group at large what kind of cookware should I get?

Files are a great subject you just may have spurred a good conversation.

Frosty The Lucky

[John McPherson]

Hoo boy, that is a open ended question. There are as many shapes and sizes of files as there are tongs. Many have been superceded by better abrasive disks and belts, but they still have their place in the shop.

[turbo7]

Ok FC how many times were you told what files to get on the chat? You need to take notice young fella of what is being said, especially when YOU asked the question. Write stuff down if you need to. For now do a search on the internet, homework. Then if you want to post tell us what you came up with ( before you throw your $ at a new file)

[WL smith]

Buy every type of file you can like frosty commented .The more high dollar they are from a good tool store (not a hardware store) the better they are. Just keep them separate from each other so they don't touch or they will damage each other.  If you know a machinist ask him about how to care for them and which brand to buy. They are life savers in metal work. 

[gote]

because forbidden

As has been pointed out, you can have any number of shapes and cuts but you have to start somewhere. Your first file should be a medium fine cross cut flat one 8-10 inches long (the business part. Handle is above that) flat on both sides and uncut on one of the small sides, That one will remove metal reasonably fast if you learn how to use it. (how to use it is another of those arts)The second one should be a draw file to smooth out what you did with the first one. Third would be a medium cut round one. But from that on, you will know by yourself what you need.

New files bought here in Sweden always have handles with holes in them so I keep the ones I mostly use, hanging on nails on the wall. That prevents them from damaging each others in a box.

By the way, A triangular is better for making square holes than a square one is.

Hope this helps

Göte

 

[Forging Carver]

Ok FC how many times were you told what files to get on the chat? You need to take notice young fella of what is being said, especially when YOU asked the question. Write stuff down if you need to. For now do a search on the internet, homework. Then if you want to post tell us what you came up with ( before you throw your $ at a new file)

yeah lol I know I was told. Then what I did was go look them up and add them to my favorites so I would not loose it. Well I was wrong about loosing them because my brother downloaded Windows 10 on the computer, and all the favorites I had were gone. I wrote it down too, but I think it accidentally got throw pn out because it wasn't with my other notes. I am getting s notebook to be more organized. Sorry 

Thanks for the help everybody. 

[BIGGUNDOCTOR]

With Nicholson you want to buy their machinist files as they are the hardest ones they make. The ones for wood, and other applications are made from on a different alloy because wood, and horse hooves are not as hard as metal so they don't need the better steel to do the job. This information came straight from the materials guy at Nicholson when I called him last year.

Look up machinist supply companies like MSC, ENCO, J&L, Travers, etc... They run specials on files from time to time in their monthly flyers. I have not used them myself,but others like Grobet files from Switzerland.

 

http://www.practicalstudent.com/subjects/metalwork/benchtools/pages/files.shtml

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=lOR2UwZRBws

And for the collectors,http://americanmadefiles.blogspot.com

 

 

[Charles R. Stevens]

Tho dont discount horse shoing rasps, I have broken a few Save-edge brand rasps, as rescently as last month (17h percheron mare fired both guns at my client and I swated her butt) so I know they are hard and britel. Uses for a new one, excluding the entended perpose is shaping wood and plastic, a used one is exelent for "hot rasping" and cold filing. They come in two flavors and three sizes. 

Their is a wet weather cut, that gumes up less cuting wet hoves (and grean wood and soft plastics) and a dry weather one for dry hooves (green wood and hard plastics) and they come in poney, standard and draft sizes. All the same width but ranging fron hunting knife, sax and gladius lengths. By several ferriers rasp handles.

They come in verius styels and materiuls. They have hard treaded inserts, alowing ready changes, or are molded rubber looking like a sword hilt. They also sell a ruber tip to aid in using them two handed. One can also forge verius handles, one i saw was like a plane hanle and aided in using it flat.

 

 

[Charles R. Stevens]

Theas handles are exelent for large files and rasps, and using, say the long wooden versus the short woden handle denoted the state of wear. In my truck we have bottom rasps (only used on bare feet) with the yellow plastic handle, top rasps (retired from bottom work) with the long wooden handle, ised to rasp the top of the hoof when shod, rasp of nail heads ext. and my forge rasp (retired from use as a top rasp) used to to hot rasp and cold file shoes. I practis similare things with my files, tho it goes the other way, lol. New sharp files get used on anealed steel, used on softer metals and used up are ussed on wood. Tho their is a new shoing rasp in the wood working area. 

Golf balls being my go to handle on the smaller ones, a pen vice on the smallest. 

[Forging Carver]

Ok thanks 

[Michael Cochran]

Just picked these up yesterday at a local tool store for a bargain. They are great for quick removal but are easy to get carried away too. One is a 'utility' and the other a 'magicut' both are Nicholson.

[Jacob Nothstine]

Here is a real good book by Nicholson tools on files and uses. 

http://www.nicholsontool.com/MagentoShare/media/documents/nicholson-guide-to-filing-2014.pdf

[jumbojak]

Don't discount old, used files either. I've picked up rusted "worn out" files that cut like liquid soap after a proper cleaning. You might not know how the job will turn out until you finish but a light picking with soft metal and a soak to take the accumulated rust off and sharpen the teeth can really work wonders. The delicate work doesn't take very long and it's really not that delicate to begin with.

People tend to junk files for silly reason - like being gummed up with oil - and as expensive as they are it can be worth it to have a second look. I just cleaned and sharpened a Simmonds bastard cut mill file that had been discarded and I swear it cuts better than a new Nicholson I picked up a few weeks ago. Just stay away from the really cheap files you see on shelves. 

One other note: don't take the folks who claim that Mexican made Nicholson's are junk too seriously. They may be a mixed bag but they certainly aren't as bad as some would suggest. I haven't had any serious problems with them, though at the same time I know people who can properly use a file who have complained of poor quality. I say this because someone looking for files is likely to run across this sort of scaremongering.

[bigfootnampa]

For new files I like Pferd and Grobet.  I have acquired a vast supply of used ones for about $1.25 each that is my main supply though!  Pickled in vinegar for a day or two and brushed clean with a brass brush they are as good as new about ninety percent of the time

[RangerGord]

Any and every.. from needle files to double cut bastard and half rounds. You'll only ever need the one you don't have.

J

I agree with this guy! Personally I like Swiss made Grobets over the new Mexican made Nicholsons  they seem hold their edge better at the same cost. But older American made Nicholsons are supposed to be top-notch. 

[Forging Carver]

I agree with this guy! Personally I like Swiss made Grobets over the new Mexican made Nicholsons  they seem hold their edge better at the same cost. But older American made Nicholsons are supposed to be top-notch.  

Which ones do do you get, mill? You are right I have heard the new Nicholson aren't that hard. Thanks for the help

[RangerGord]

Disappearing post bug might be getting me on this one?

[Bo T]

Don't discount old, used files either. I've picked up rusted "worn out" files that cut like liquid soap after a proper cleaning. You might not know how the job will turn out until you finish but a light picking with soft metal and a soak to take the accumulated rust off and sharpen the teeth can really work wonders. The delicate work doesn't take very long and it's really not that delicate to begin with.

People tend to junk files for silly reason - like being gummed up with oil - and as expensive as they are it can be worth it to have a second look. I just cleaned and sharpened a Simmonds bastard cut mill file that had been discarded and I swear it cuts better than a new Nicholson I picked up a few weeks ago. Just stay away from the really cheap files you see on shelves. 

One other note: don't take the folks who claim that Mexican made Nicholson's are junk too seriously. They may be a mixed bag but they certainly aren't as bad as some would suggest. I haven't had any serious problems with them, though at the same time I know people who can properly use a file who have complained of poor quality. I say this because someone looking for files is likely to run across this sort of scaremongering.

How does one go about sharpening a file?

[jumbojak]

Well, whddya know? That long reply just went poof, and was gone! Poof I say, POOF!!! I'll try to post an explanation again later...

Edited October 24, 2015 by jumbojak

[Nobody Special]

How does one go about sharpening a file?

Either send them out to be sharpened, (well worth it sometimes), or a soak in acid, followed by neutralizing with water and baking soda, then drying and a LIGHT oil coat. (and wipe away any extra). What I've read says it eats away the edge of the teeth down to a fine point again. You can't do it too many times though. Better to care for them properly, especially storage. Let em bang together in a tool chest or toolbox, and they dull in a big hurry.

[RangerGord]

Well, whddya know? That long reply just went poof, and was gone! Poof I say, POOF!!! I'll try to post an explanation again later...

Yep, the same thing hit me.

[Bo T]

Either send them out to be sharpened, (well worth it sometimes), or a soak in acid, followed by neutralizing with water and baking soda, then drying and a LIGHT oil coat. (and wipe away any extra). What I've read says it eats away the edge of the teeth down to a fine point again. You can't do it too many times though. Better to care for them properly, especially storage. Let em bang together in a tool chest or toolbox, and they dull in a big hurry.

Thanks.