My youngest knothead

[Charles R. Stevens]

Well, I had a vasectomy at 20, being diagnosed with Bipolar Illness (they hadn't made Type II a separate diagnosis) and a personality disorder. Being inherited and seeing that none of my generation had escaped it (some worse some better off than I) I dealt with birth control on the front end, in fact being under 21 and unmarried I had to get a note from my mother, lol. Old enough to have served in the Army but not old enough to take responsibility for my ability to reproduce. 

So, raising Alex and her sister was a continuous decision. i can only imagine where they would be if I hadn't. 

[notownkid]

My mother use to say about raising kids, you can tell them, lead them & push them but you can't make them follow. 

[Charles R. Stevens]

I recomend shock collors, but DHS dissagreas

[notownkid]

I knew a guy who found a person robbing his house, he caught him and but a dog shock collar on him, chained him to a tree in his yard and shocked him for 3 days before the police showed up and arrested him, he got 3 yrs. and the robber got off.  I'll bet he is careful what house he breaks into now.

[Charles R. Stevens]

Bet He thought the 3 years was worth it! Lol. 

Here, as I have round pen, stocks and shoe and train horses My place is considerd a "horse facility" their for it is a fellony to trespas, no warnings or sighns required. Never had any one sue me over the dog, who has been known to bite the butt's of tresspassers, especialy when they learn that telling a judge they comited a fellony will land them in jail. My personal opinion is that if you have to clime over my fences, you deserve to get dog bit. 

[Frosty]

While Alaska has a bad rep for gun violence Nat. news tends to avoid mention when it's a home owner or someone under attack saving themselves with a fire arm. Or local news will report it especially after the last time they wouldn't a couple decades ago. The "victim" bought TV time and reported it herself, she was sponsored by organizations who support the 2nd. Amendment. Local news report such now. Ooh you betcha.

One instance 2-3 years ago. 3 thugs kicked in the door when a 73 yr. old man answered the bell. They started beating the crap out of him and rifling the apartment. The gentleman's 71 yr. old wife came through the bedroom door with a .357 Colt Python blazing. One thug DRT, #2 dead and tumbling down the 2nd. floor stairs and #3 arrested at the hospital after being treated for 3 in the back. The surviving thug was consequently charged for among other things 2 counts of murder (his buddies), breaking and entering, assault battery, bleeding in public, etc. The lady wasn't charged, not even close. During the TV interview she was complimented on being such a good shot, five hits and one un-spent round in  the pistol. She demurred saying she had to reload, running targets are hard to hit at night.

I like dogs, they give you time to chamber a round and you don't have to be too fussy with a 12ga.

Frosty The Lucky

[Charles R. Stevens]

25 yards with 00 lawenforcement load, 75 with slugs (150 with saboted slugs)  12 guage makes a great deffensive tool. 

[Frosty]

Only 25 yds? My Win. Defender will only chamber 2 3/4 mag and the 00 pattern at 25 yds. is the size of a salad plate and will punch both sides of a 55gl. drum. Then again that's a SWEET gun, you almost never see fliers. Just a straight pipe an unusually excellent pattern, a lucky find.

You'd love my New England Arms 12ga. Rifle. She's a break down single shot but consistently holds a 3"- pattern at 100 yards with punkin balls over iron sights. She'll put a rifled slug through 36" of green birch while the Defender puts rounds from the same box through 14" but not farther. I have no idea what the penetration is with saboted, home machined, copper wad cutters. V8 maybe?

I've never known anybody didn't know exactly what the sound of a 12ga. pump chambering a round meant. No dog that's been around humans misunderstands what it means if you bend over and pick up a rock. Your 10 yr. old daughter might not be able to fire a 12ga. a second time but it isn't going to be necessary.

Frosty The Lucky

[Charles R. Stevens]

Quoting my tactical shot gun instructor, lol. 

And stick with the wooden stock, makes a mighty fine club in close.

I agree that the sound of a pump beimg wracked will loosen ones bowels. 

Edited October 2, 2015 by Charles R. Stevens

[Frosty]

Not if you're the one doing the chambering, I finds it stiffens the knees nicely.

Frosty The Lucky

[fergy]

Haha you been puttin a few rounds in the birch's frosty?

 

[Charles R. Stevens]

Be carful there. We had a clown shooting seguoro cactus as a kid, he turned to shot another and his first victum droped an arm on his dumb xxx. Squised him dead.  

[Dogsoldat]

I'm beginning to wonder whether the whole birch incident was a mafia style get even hit... 

 

[Frosty]

We were drilling a bridge abutment location during summer so we weren't burning the tree carcasses the track rig generates driving through the woods. It was also bear company so we were packing. I'd just stacked birch rounds in a row to do some slug testing.

The Gun penetrated about 14" max from about 20 yds. The 12ga. rifle was a world different, recoil is a punch to the shoulder where the Win 12ga. is a sharp shove. Instead of a shotgun boom it's a BIG rifle crack. The slugs literally toppled the first two birch rds. and stopped half way through the 3rd.

The factory loaded copper "solids" I tried are junk, they're over thought hollow points. The business end of the slug is drilled about 1/3 of the way into the slug and the THIN sides are cut into quadrants. Even coming out of the smooth bore they were hitting the target sideways at 30', not yards, feet. Firing one out of the rifle was worse, the "expanding" blades were scattered over more than 1' and the remains of the slug hit going backwards. Junk rounds unless the barrel is in contact with the target and what's the difference in that case.

Oh yeah, the tree attack I figure it's some kind of cellulose revenge but hardly for plugging some birch rounds. I figure driving a 47,000lb.+ track rig over thousands of trees a year and making "warming" fires of the Bon type during inclement weather, heating with wood for 40 years, etc. is motive enough.

That wasn't the first time I've been hit by a tree, the worst but not the first. We were on a job in S.E. and the hillside we were traversing was too steep to risk just driving the larger trees down so I was cutting in front of the rig while the another guy was cleaning up behind us in case we had to come back on the same trail. I'd gotten so used to killing birch, cotton wood and spruce I wasn't paying enough attention to the bark or I would've realized I wasn't cutting a birch and looked at leaves. Maples grow in S.E. probably transplanted at some time in the past but maple is a TRICKY fell.

That was my first experience with a serious kick back. I was standing to the side ready to dodge and it kicked directly at me, hit me in the chest, picked me up and threw me into a hole. I wasn't hurt but boy was that an eye opener. It wasn't a big tree, maybe 8" butt but it had so much energy stored in the trunk it was like a catapult waiting to be fired.

Killing trees is dangerous and if you do it long enough it doesn't matter how good you are something you aren't expecting IS going to get you. When it happened to me I was only 3 mins. from EMS. Deb was home and the dogs saw it happen. Yes I'm LUCKY.

Frosty The Lucky

[notownkid]

I like the sound of a slide slamming shut on a 1911 Colt, very distinctive and should put the fear of the almighty into about anyone.

[ThomasPowers]

My son in law, then a LEO in another state, visited us in NM and once he saw where we lived had a talk with us and told use we needed a pump shotgun as we were a tad far from the sheriff's office.  He told me that most times the sound of working it would deal with any issues on the other side of a door and the times it wouldn't; well you were ready...He actually offered me my choice: one was a tricked out urban combat version; the other was an old family hunting gun.  I chose the old family gun as; if I ever needed to stand in front of a judge explaining why someone had permanent holes in them I figured the old family shotgun would weigh in on my side...

[Charles R. Stevens]

The rules of gun safety are simple. 

1, the gun is always loaded.  

More folks are shot by "empty guns" and a gun is useless exept as an expensive club otherwise.

2, never put your finger on the trigger until you are prepared to fire (this gets even LEO's in trouble, I accidentally shot him...)

3, never let the barrel cover anything you are unwilling to destroy (like your foot!)

4, always check your targets.  What are you shooting at? Is it your son? A police officer chasing said bad guy? And were will the round go if you miss or if the round goes clean threw the target?

and number 5, unofficially, if you pull your weapon shoot to kill!

if you pull your weapon and dont shoot, you may be guilty of "brandishing" or threatening as you were obviously not in fear of your life or you would have shot him. Second, if he is dead he can not provide false testimony against you, especially in a civil lawsuit. 

And for those of you who believe in a warning shot, a single round placed center of mass is generally sufficient, if that fails to warn them off a second center of mass fallowed by a third between the eyes most generally will.

[ianinsa]

This may seem like odd advice but the first round in your gun should be 'full metal jacket' dumdums, hollow points, ball etc. After. So should you shoot yourself in the foot or elsewhere, whilst not ideal its preferable to have a nice clean wound. With regards an intended target always follow up that first shot!

[Alan Evans]

You lot are frightening the bejabers out of me.

I have noted four addresses I will not be calling in on unannounced if I happen to be in the area...

Alan

[Charles R. Stevens]

Allen, if you get past the dog your more than welcome at my home!

[nuge]

I am with Alan in that in that I find the trajectory and current location of this thread astonishing and a bit frightening.  Good luck with your family.

 

[Charles R. Stevens]

Thank you, Nuge. I'm sorry to make you unconfortable, and infact I would have to go back and reread to see how we got side tract. 

[Steve Sells]

I just noticed this thread, (working long weekend shifts) and while I agree and practice the same level of home protection, I have to insist we redirect and get back to smithing,  We have over 150 countries represented at IFI, and a few of those places seem to prefer to allow innocents to call and wait for police to arrive and deal with them,  we dont want to start a fight with them, and technically this right of self defense topic gets very close to politics from some points of view, which is forbidden in our ToS here. No matter how you look at it, it is a serious matter, and should not be taken lightly.

Anvils north please.

[Charles R. Stevens]

True, for some its religion (both pro and con) for others its politics (again pro and con).

as an update, Alex goes back before the judge the 14th (her birthday) I'm praying that the DA and Judge deside to redirect her to "drug and alcohol/mental health" court.  As its not an election year, it is a first offence and she has a history of mental ilness (1 1/2 in a hospital as a teen) she should qualify if the DA will exept a plea to a nonviolent mistorminor as agrivated vandilism is considerd a violent felloney.

sorry to hear about the long weekend shifts, but happy to hear your working, Steve.

[Alan Evans]

I just noticed this thread, (working long weekend shifts) and while I agree and practice the same level of home protection, I have to insist we redirect and get back to smithing,  We have over 150 countries represented at IFI, and a few of those places seem to prefer to allow innocents to call and wait for police to arrive and deal with them,  we dont want to want to start a fight with them, and technically this right of self defense topic gets very close to politics from some points of view, which is forbidden in our ToS here.  No matter how you look at it, it is a serious matter, and should not be taken lightly.

Anvils north please.

Thank you...but also ouch! 

I do agree family is foremost. But I also feel happier talking about compassionate ways to deal with, and support, societies strays, which was the original theme of the thread, rather than in the way it developed. It was the apparent contradiction that bothered me, from the point of view that they are all someone's kids.

Alan