Forging Carver

What oil should I use for quenching?

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  I am new to blacksmithing and don't know what to use.

What oil you guys use to quench for hardening, as well as what you use for quenching while forging, such as for cooling the tip of a nail before passing it through the header so it doesn't get stuck or flattened?

  Thanks so much

 

Your multiple question post has been split into multiple posts and placed on the correct forums.

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Be prepared for curmudgeons to come down on you a bit for spamming the same questions on multiple places on the board without even bothering to do any of your own basic research on this site and in other areas where this info is readily available.

Edited by latticino

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Since you have not bothered to read anything here for yourself I wont bother explaining what to do here either, you wont read it.  My shop rate is $50 per hour if you want me to do it for you.

I am the one of the old guys you were warned about :D

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When making nails you can put a HOT nail tip, (and whole nail) through the header. The header wedges the material in place so you can forge the nail head. You then only need to flip the header over and tap it and the nail should fall out.

Quenchants can be air, water, brine, various oils, multiple other materials, and specialty products depending on the material being used.

Use the proper quenchant for the steel being used. If you have unknown steel, then YOU have to figure out what works by testing.

Edited by Glenn

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As stated the quenchant depends on the alloy and some on the intended usage (blades tend to go one step slower in quench large masses faster)  Using the wrong quenchant for the alloy and use can result in catastrophic failure.  I have NEVER quenched a nail until it was time to knock it out of the neail header the shape of the preform and the shape of the header takes care of all of what you were talking about.

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Just think if us as your slightly sadistic uncles...

canola oil, olive oil, bacon greas, lard, tallow or comertial quenching oil, stay away from used motor oil. I dont oersonaly recomend ATF or hydrolic oil either. 

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What us old grumpy guys are trying to tell you is to . Go to the stickies in the blaksmith section and read. Go to the knifemaking section and read spend some time . Doing some research on your own. Everything you are asking has been covered . Then come back with questions that show you have spent some time to learn not expect it to be handed to you on a silver platter. End of rant.

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I'd answer your questions but I have more important things to do than your reading for you. However, I WILL give you a hint. You don't know enough to ask meaningful questions and certainly not enough to understand even the most basic answers. If you care you have probably 40 hours of reading that covers more than you're even aware you need to know.

Frosty The Lucky.

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 (blades tend to go one step slower in quench large masses faster)  

What?

Are you saying that blades are slowly lowered into the quenchant?

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The quenching speed has nothing to do with the rate of immersion, its dissipation of the calories in the target item ..

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There is no need to quench the nail before putting it into the header, or after when it is finished.  .... That said, if you feel the absolute compulsion to quench any part of a nail, water should be fine for low carbon iron.

Edited by David Einhorn

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Thinner sections need a quenchent that is some what slower, thicker sections some what faster. So a W1 blade will probbably need to qenched in oil wile a W1 anvil may need to be quenched in superquench

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Forging Carver, please don't get the idea we are down on you, your paying the price for the hundreds of others that have asked the same questions. Not only that, but more often than not the poster has goten belligerent when in his ignorance he asked a completely ignorant question and when we tried to explain the question he should have asked and tried to provide the answers he needed. 

Besides if you pass this initiation, your in like flint

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As he said the "speed" of a quenchant refers to how fast it abstracts heat from the item being quenched.  As for speed of immersion; for some alloys you have about a second to drop the temp nearly 1000 degF to get full hardening.  Should we mention the "nose" yet?

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Forging Carver, please read the topic How to safely ask curmudgeons for advice. It has 74 replies and explains how to navigate through the site and through life.

The site is full of information that you can access manually through the sections, or by using the search engine. The quickest way to blend in is to first do a little research on your own, tell us what problem you are experiencing, tell us what you have done to solve the problem, and ask how to best proceed. This way we know where to start with our answers. Take that information to the forge and test it out. Return with that experience and ask additional questions. You show you tried and we provide additional answers.

We want you to succeed but we also need YOU to want to succeed.

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Oil for hardening steel, you might as well just get a jug or two of plain vegetable oil from the store. It will work as well as anything else besides Real engineered quench oils that work better, but cost a lot for a beginner. For hardening water hardening steel, Large pieces like hammers and whatnot, or just cooling off mild steel,A bucket of water will do fine. if you're doing a nail just put the hot nail in the header over the pritchel hole and hammer the head onto the nail. It will cool off on its own.

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Putting a little dish soap in quench water will help it work a little better. I can't remember exactly what the addition of soap changes, but the water won't boil away from the steel quite as much.

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Putting a little dish soap in quench water will help it work a little better. I can't remember exactly what the addition of soap changes, but the water won't boil away from the steel quite as much.

It contains sodium laurel sulphate a surfacant which breaks surface tension so water makes good contact and the detergent prevents steam from sticking to the steel.

Little air and steam pockets on steel being quenched insulates the spot making for uneven hardness throughout. Jet Dry, dish washer water spot preventative has a higher % sodium laurel sulphate and is included in Super Quench recipe as a surfacant.

Frosty The Lucky.

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FYI: there is different types of metals..which there are three different ways to heat treat.. some metals are air Harding or water or oil. who sells you your metal will tell you that info. on knives you want to quench straight in .not side to side or you can warp the blade.. up+down is the way. metal is hard or hardenable .to hold a edge you need 45 points of carbon anything less is mild iron and will not hold a edge no matter what you do.

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On 7/23/2015 at 11:14 AM, Charles R. Stevens said:

Just think if us as your slightly sadistic uncles...

canola oil, olive oil, bacon greas, lard, tallow or comertial quenching oil, stay away from used motor oil. I dont oersonaly recomend ATF or hydrolic oil either. 

May I ask WHY not to use used motor oil? my guess would be impurities and the fact that the reason motor oil turns black is it's burnt already

I think I missed the post that covered this already. a link to that post would be most welcome.

it is in the heat treat sticky's

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Automotive lubricants and hydraulic oils have additives in them to keep engines clean, prevent lubrication and who knows what else then there's all the crud engine, tranny, hyd motor, cyliinder, etc. gets ground into it and it gets pretty toxic. No, you can stay out of the direct smoke it's not going to leave you twitching on the floor but you will get a dose of various metals and plastics.

I get used fryer oil and try to time it for when they're changing the oil in the doughnut fryers. That way your shop smells like doughnuts when you heat treat. Bad timing my last oil mooch makes my shop smell like egg rolls, burritos and who knows what else. It's not toxic though just smells like it. :huh:

Frosty The Lucky.

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The other reason is the other oils are not as toxic. Babit, the material that main, crank and cam bearings are made of contain lead and other heavy metals, this is also used in the busings inside an Automatic transmition.

Their is a reason why OSHA recommends wearing nitril gloves wile doing automotive work. Now do you want to breath vapors from petrovied alge and wale extrimenet as well as what ever some chemist desided was grand to ad to it?  

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