NickOHH Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 No doubt old threads are full of valuable info. There is a small small snag, however. All pictures are gone so the info becomes meaningless. Observations by a fool i.e. meGöteagreed, its ashame the pics are gone, hard to grasp what theyre talking about without them sometimes. but there is alot of information in all those post that arent on the first page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 agreed, its ashame the pics are gone, hard to grasp what theyre talking about without them sometimes. but there is alot of information in all those post that arent on the first page And it's hard to find that info without reading the posts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted September 28, 2015 Author Share Posted September 28, 2015 So my tendency to rely on description and eschew photos turns out to be a useful trait! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 So my tendency to rely on description and eschew photos turns out to be a useful trait!Quite apart from its utility in demanding spatial imagination from your instructees! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThorsHammer82 Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 Only wise people can learn from someone else's mistakes. Fools ALWAYS have to learn the HARD WAY, if they manage to learn from their mistakes at all. Ego protection often thwarts the proper learning process... It isn't a crime to be ignorant, it is a crime to stubbornly persist in your ignorance;-)I've never considered myself wise in the solitary literation of the word. But I've always prided myself in my ability to learn from the mistakes of others. Not that I haven't made some of my own. But I never knowingly made the same mistakes as my friends, co-workers, Parents, Mentors, etc. The way I see it, Life is hard enough. Why make it harder by learning things on my own. I like to know enough to be dangerous in most things. But I also like to keep my hands and feet inside the ride until it's come to a complete stop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted September 28, 2015 Author Share Posted September 28, 2015 Like the old saying: "There are those who can learn by reading about the mistakes of others, and those who can lean by watching others make mistakes and finally those who just have to micturate on the electric fence themselves!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LawnJockey Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 A lot of this thread seems to be the same old people pounding their chests yet again. The fact is innovation happens when someone looks at something and asks what if questions. In regards to blacksmithing we are generally not talking super high tech jet engine stuff. One of the joys of walking though an old smithy is looking at the innovative and original solutions that the smith has come up with. Sometimes those ideas come from people not locked into the established practices of the trade. I saw an example of this back in the 70s. A guy I knew sold his company to Baker Oil Tool (now Baker Hughes). The company that was sold made quality control equipment for the oil refining industry and medical devices. The founder and seller of that company was an electronic engineer. He was invited to be on the Board of Baker and joined it. The Chairman of Baker at the time was a management genius by the name of Huby Clark. Huby immediately put the guy I knew in charge of some copper mines. What Huby understood was that when you have a new set of eyes that are backed up with an innovative and creative mind innovation happens and innovation drives profits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThorsHammer82 Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 I disagree with you about the "pounding their chests" comment.Blacksmithing in general is, as you stated, low tech. It has also been pondered over by smiths for a millennia who were taught by smiths with decades of experience before they spent decades themselves pondering smithing before they passed on the knowledge they've gained. Would you teach someone the things that didn't work? or would you teach them the things that you know worked?This thread was started saying simply "follow the instructions". It's a statement meaning that people with more experience than you have done the hard part.In general it was directed at the new people who are interested in the trade. People who though intelligent may be lacking in the practical experience of smithing in general.One must first learn how to walk before they can run. For some running comes quicker than for others. but they first must walk. in this case the walk is following the instructions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LawnJockey Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 Perhaps it was the level of arrogance that I found disturbing. Of course there is extreme value in the collective experience but don't discount innovative thought either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borntoolate Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 Random thoughts...Everyone needs to try to remember when they were ignorant as all of us were at some point on all things. How best can we help the ignorant? Ignorance is not bad it is simply where we all start.Yes. The younger among us do not have the same experiences we did. This is always true since forever. The way people learned before and the way people learn now and the skills that young people come to the table with change over time. Our job is to figure out how to teach in the current reality.We no longer have to spend days doing research in the library. Many things can be found in seconds by a smart phone search. This is both good and bad. It is part of our current reality. It is unfortunate and awesome! I do have a library card and I use it. I think everyone should. I do have to say that the library these days is not the greatest place to learn much about blacksmithing. Though I did borrow a great DVD there! I love a good novel too. James Clavell is probably my FAVE.Yes. There are jerks. There have always been jerks. Some of us resemble that remark. Are you one of them... in your own way? LawnJockey mentioned arrogance. I see this at times on this site. In many cases it is deserved. In other words someone knows their stuff!!!! But arrogance and condescending to the ignorant does nothing to help anyone and sometimes just fills up space with useless words that help no one. Why bother typing it?Respectfully. My two cents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 (edited) It isn't ignorance I find offending, heck I'm ignorant of a lot of things. Nor do I fing lack of inteligence offensive. A person who lacks inteligence certainly cant help it, and if you are patient and break it down barney (the perple dino not the bubling cop) simple tey can learn to do amazing things. I find willfull ignorance, or should I say a zelos belife despite the facts. I also find aregance with out acomplishment offensive.if you find me arigant and offensive, please feel free and block me, no skin off my teath. Edited September 29, 2015 by Charles R. Stevens Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gote Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 Lawn jockey, I resent your idea that experienced people are arrogant.Arrogance is something that ususlly comes with and is caused by ignorance. I have very high regard for the knowledge of those you call ”old people” and I do NOT find them arrogant. I find them extremely helpful.However, I as well as other experienced people (this is not confined to blacksmithing) are sometimes irritated by people who want to waste our time and/or exhibit ignorance based arrogance. I have lost very large amounts of money because such people managed to get the upper hand and I think I am entitled to be irritated about that.I suggest that you read the thread again and do some of the rethinking you advocate.Then I suggest that you start answering all questions from swordsmith wannabees so the chestthumping old people can get some peace of mind.Göte the geront. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fergy Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 This is going nowhere fast the way you read what another has typed May not be the way it was meant to come across directed at no one but please let's not start a slinging match fergyoh and flame away (I can handle it) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 oh and flame away (I can handle it) Is this the new hip way to say "Keep the fire burning"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThorsHammer82 Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 This is going nowhere fast the way you read what another has typed May not be the way it was meant to come across directed at no one but please let's not start a slinging match fergyoh and flame away (I can handle it) I must agree with this. For many times my written word does not reflect the intent or inflection that my lacking vocabulary cannot portray. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fergy Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 I must agree with this. For many times my written word does not reflect the intent or inflection that my lacking vocabulary cannot portray. that's what I wanted to say but my vocabulary does lack somewhat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 I'm done with my rant, not a person that has posted I wouldnt invite over for dinner. Forgot to hit "post" again, lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted September 30, 2015 Author Share Posted September 30, 2015 Tahitian Long Pig recipe you've been eager to try out? Mosquitoes have beat you to it around here. We're in a desert so folks flood irrigate to avoid not wasting any water; but the mosquitoes have felt that change in season and are trying to make good before the frost arrives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 Lord no, TP! No telling where some folks have been! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borntoolate Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 What is in my head does not always come out my mouth. What comes out my fingers is probably more obscure. BUt at least I get a chance to edit it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 My greatest chalange is keeping what is in my head from coming out my mouth! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmoothBore Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 My greatest chalange is keeping what is in my head from coming out my mouth! AMEN.I hear ya.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThorsHammer82 Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 Charles, that needs to be in the gems and pearls thread! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianinsa Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 Tahitian Long Pig recipe you've been eager to try out? Mosquitoes have beat you to it around here. We're in a desert so folks flood irrigate to avoid not wasting any water; but the mosquitoes have felt that change in season and are trying to make good before the frost arrives.Obscure at best and I had no idea that Jerry was going to visit you(did he?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Cochran Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 Like the old saying: "There are those who can learn by reading about the mistakes of others, and those who can lean by watching others make mistakes and finally those who just have to micturate on the electric fence themselves!"Thank you, Thomas, you used a word I had to look up. I always like it when people use words I have no idea what they are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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