Steve Sells Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 I made the mistake of explaining a few things to some clueless members of a facebook website called brotherhood of the blade, and an associated Knife buy,sell, and swap site. A member there was selling Russian made Bowie knifes for $40 each that he says are folded 400 times. I asked if he made a typo because 400 folds is not only impractical but cost prohibitive for $40 since the appearance of 20 folds l is about the same as 400, which is essentially looking like mono steel at that point, but with much more labor and loss of material. The kids that run that FB page banned be for "the way I explained it" They kicked me out stating I was interfering with their sales, and they are not impressed, and do not want my type around, if I got taken in a sale its my problem not theirs. This same member that was scamming the sites there sent me a PM the next day stating I should mind my own business. He got taken by the Russian for a load of those blades, and he was only repeating what he was told trying to unload them for a small profit, not his problem if its true or not. (a frengi from star trek ?) I was not stupid enough to fall for that scam but some did, too bad the site had that "we don't get involved" attitude, which if you recall resulted in Ebay losing a lot of money many years back when the judge stated they hosted the sales and while are they may not accountable for all bad sales, they are held accountable for allowing known scams to continue. buyer beware... especially over the internet, where people think they are invisible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 I have been known to ask folks how radioactive their blades are when their # of folds and thickness of the blade takes the "layers" under the diameter of the iron atom. Been yelled at a bunch of times too by folks who didn't think that the seller had any legal duty to know what they were selling and not to lie about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSW Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 There you go confusing the issue with facts. :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dablacksmith Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 ya well i have had a person (someone who should know better) tell me "old time swords were made from a steel like mild (lo carbon) steel! and tried to get to agree wile talking to a customer! had to sat no that steel for swords was better than that...this same person is currently forging out swords to sell out of mild steel...people have no shame !!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack-O-Lantern Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 Sometimes I find good info on FB smithing pages, but if dare warn people not to use galvanized then all hell breaks loose. Its safer to talk about politics than it is to talk about smithing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted February 5, 2015 Author Share Posted February 5, 2015 On another FB site, we had a discussion about sweet iron for horse bits. Later someone mentioned it was a "high carbon Iron" being used, I mention Iron plus Carbon is steel, and no one would waste their supply of high carbon in period, for making horse tack, we had an arm chair smith mouth off, (he was in college no less) cussing at me, and started stating all types of cast iron grades. I pointed out I am not aware of people foirging cast iron, and then it went down hill real fast, Ended up having that thread deleted, and the college expert left the site before the page owner could talk to him about it, We get all kinds more worried about being right than understanding and learning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arkie Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 As has been said many times..."You just can't fix stupid!!!!!!!!!!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Turley Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 "Sweet iron" bridle bits came up recently. One person said it came from Swedish iron, called Swede iron. I thought that was a good one which I hadn't heard before. My personal view was that wrought iron in Spanish is hierro dulce, literally 'iron sweet,' and the early Mexican bitsmiths translated it to their Anglo counterparts and apprentices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 You probably have the truth of it, Frank. As we inherited (and subsequently bastardized either the name or tack) most of our western tack and technice from spanish/mexican (indo-spanish?) horsemen (caberoes, californioes etc.) Not sure who is worse, Steve. zealots that believe they are right, despite evidence to the contrary or liars and cheats. I think the former are more dangerous, but well meaning. The latter are just evil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJS Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 The insecure and incompetent often make up for what they don't know and can't do, by being very vehement in their beliefs... Not to mention touchy and defensive ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 SJS, thats close to my my definition of "stupid". To (insert favorite expletive) stubborn to learn. Ignorance is curable, and I can forgive those who where not gifted (cursed?) with intelligence. But I have no tolerance for the "stupid". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Einhorn Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Yup, you can't argue with stupid. There is a guy selling cast iron anvils on a number of Facebook forums (both blacksmithing and historical Facebook groups), and an unbelievable number of people in eastern Europe trying to sell junk knives. The guy selling cast iron anvils seems to truly believe that his cast iron anvils are fine. Unfortunately, there are a lot of people who are so blinded by their desire for a bargain that they will actually believe that they can buy a high-end pattern-welded knife or a high-end sword for $40, or an anvil-shaped-object at a bargain price. Some people aren't very bright, many others are blinded by the desire to get something for nothing. ...... And then there are the instant experts; people who are absolute experts the moment they take up a hobby. .... The Internet is a place that misinformation can spread rapidly, fools can portray themselves as experts, and thieves can make an easy profit preying on the ignorant, the fools and the instant experts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Howdy, David, long time no read. Doesn't every one need an overpriced door stop? At least its a $20 knife for $40. Better than $400 or $4000. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notownkid Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Internet Experts don't want you giving them facts as it messes up their story. PT Barnum's comment about fools and their money is as appropriate today as ever. An Expert is anyone more than 25 miles from home with a briefcase or now days on the internet. Steve, they will never learn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njanvilman Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 The insecure and incompetent often make up for what they don't know and can't do, by being very vehement in their beliefs... Not to mention touchy and defensive ;-) Even IFI is not immune. There are a few of them on here, unfortunately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Turley Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 This may have been said before, but it bears repeating. "An expert. An ex is a has been, and a spurt is a little drip under pressure." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 I just read a book on my Kindle called, "Mistakes Were Made But Not by Me." by Carla Tavris. I think it's Carla if not somebody ELSE made the mistake. <wink> It's a psychology text, the subject being how cognitive dissonance causes discomfort at a very deep level and humans will automatically do something to relieve the discomfort. This results in excuses, rationalizations, accusations, litigation, etc. etc. The most common examples she uses are politicians who caught flat footed being wrong will double talk for decades that it never happened. The title is a quote of something Henry Kissinger said repeatedly for decades. What's that got to do with the subject? The world is full of thieves and cons, we've all been screwed and it's hard to admit we fell for something so idiotic. Yes? Well, there you are, discovering we really ARE that gullible causes cognitive dissonance. Get screwed by a Russian con and you're stuck with a few hundred junk items? Well, given time enough telling yourself you really aren't THAT dumb and you begin to believe it OR if I fell for it then it's someone else's fault if they fall for it. It may not make you feel as smart as your self image would like to believe but at least you're not below average! Telling someone the "truth" is rubbing their noses in a painful experience, one they have perhaps spent years convincing themselves just isn't so. Don't expect a grateful reaction, ain't a gonna happen. In the case of the junk blades, you're not only rubbing salt in the cognitive wounds of the first sucker who's selling them but all the other folk who've been suckered in turn. Stepping into something like that is like being a Cop breaking up a domestic dispute. All you're doing is giving them an outside BAD GUY target to take their mind of their own cognitive dissonance. It's not that we don't learn or are stupid, we're hard wired by evolution for certain behaviors and it's really hard to break the pattern. So, don't think too poorly of folk who believe in the silly, someone will point out YOU IS ONE TOO! Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timothy Miller Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 Most people value loyalty over facts, whether its to an idea or a person. It is in my opinion is one of the most destructive human attributes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arkie Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 Frosty, your book would be a good reading companion to "The Peter Principle". I've known a LOT of those folks over the years! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rthibeau Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 "stupid is as stupid does" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 Frosty, your book would be a good reading companion to "The Peter Principle". I've known a LOT of those folks over the years! I agree, "Mistakes . . . " goes a long way to understanding why people get shuffled laterally and leaders must hit their level of incompetence to get the job. Humans. <s i g h> Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sluicebox Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 You are all right about us new guys being quick, hostile experts. I am sorry that I demonstrated that fact the other day. I will try harder in the future to learn more before I offer advice. I will try not to argue with someone who is real world experienced in this art. You all know BS when you see it as you have learned the difference. That is a sincere compliment. Best.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 You are all right about us new guys being quick, hostile experts. I am sorry that I demonstrated that fact the other day. I will try harder in the future to learn more before I offer advice. I will try not to argue with someone who is real world experienced in this art. You all know BS when you see it as you have learned the difference. That is a sincere compliment. Best.... Hey, don't go being hard on yourself. We all started out, we all make mistakes, repeat myth, thought we had the better way, etc. etc. Nothing new about that, been there do that. . . OFTEN. <sigh> About not speaking up. How does a person determine if what they think is right or not? A person could experiment till they made the determination, read about it, talk about it, take classes, attend demos, etc. Naturally, doing all is best but talking about it is really important. If you've wasted so much time as to read many of my many posts you'll realize how often I've hit Send when I should've hit Delete. Here's something to think about. You've not only realized you maybe put your foot in your mouth. (I'd have to search to find what you're talking about but I'm too lazy and don't really care) You not only realize a mistake but publicly confess?!? Blacksmithing is a lifelong process of failure analysis, I'd almost be willing to bet a blacksmith coined the saying, "we learn from our mistakes." To be able to learn from a mistake we: first, MUST recognize it's a mistake. Second analyze what went wrong and only then can we begin to correct it. I've worked with people who never make a mistake and. . . no CIVIL comment. Welcome to the club Brother, proud to know you. Oh and it's no accident Blacksmithing and Bull Shooting share the abbreviation. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles R. Stevens Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 Sluicebox, I second Frosty. Welcome to the Club. When you chose to make a stand just be prepared to put your hammer and tongs where your mouh is, lol. Given a wile here you will learn who's oppinion you can take to the anvil and who's you want to try out on a scrap. If you ask the steel its oppinion about some advice it will all come clear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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