ausfire Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 OK, you have a 2ft length of 1/2 inch square MS bar. No tongs required. You want to forge a 4 inch round taper for a firepoker.I would like to know, from you experienced smiths, how many heats would it normally take you to accomplish that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianbrazealblacksmith Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 1 heat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 1 with a power hammer. Now by hand we will need to know how much it tapers 1/2" to 0, 1/2" to 1/4", etc. And assumes your forge can heat the entire length + to a respectable heat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianbrazealblacksmith Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Thomas, he said 4 inches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dablacksmith Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 1-2 heats depending on if its morning or evening... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judson Yaggy Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 Yes, one heat by hand, one heat with plenty of time left for a second operation with a power hammer. And I've watched Brian demo and even thou I'm not as fast/efficient by hand as he is a 4" round taper is not onerous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 2 heat maybe, depends on how strong the coffee and hearty a breakfast I had. I don't do round tapers for fire pokers. I draw a square taper say 2-3" long, fold it about an inch inside the taper draw the fold into a point, bend the taper out for the hook, decorate the shaft and put a handle finial on it. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beammeupscotty Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 I suspect some here are being pretty optimistic. I have forged thousands of such tapers by hand and I doubt I could do it in less than 4 heats, at least if I want to end up with a nice finish at the end… might even be six. I actually just came back into the house from my shop, where I forged about a 7" rounded taper on a piece of 1/2" rebar and I think it probably took me at least 8 heats. I'd really like to see someone forge a decent 4" round taper on 1/2" square stock in one heat. Please feel free to do so and post the video. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borntoolate Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 prolly 2-5 heats depending on how long I've been away from the forge. That can be days or weeks. Also can depend on how "mature" my fire is when I start. Sometimes if my fire is not real hot and full "mature" I'll take a few whacks as things heat up better to attempt to get in the swing. No rush just calibrating and warming up... probably just at the tip/taper... I find it takes me a little time to get my half hammer blows at the far end accurate and precise after a week or two away from the the forge. I don't like to get in a hurry on this a risk damaging the anvil like I see so often.. (large chunks broken off the far side). I also am not all that fast and I don't really care too much about that. For me Blacksmithing is more about learning and meditation/escape from the rigors of modern life. When I am warmed up and my fire is mature and I heat it quite well and I am in the groove I likely would not get it to satisfaction in one heat. BTW this would be by hand. No power hammer. Using a hammer that Brian and I made. Thanks Brian! :rolleyes: I love my 3.5# +/- hammer!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judson Yaggy Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 Brian and others (Uri Hofi springs to mind) have videos showing just this already posted. Wouldn't want to do it all day without the power hammer whirring away, but by hand being well in practice and using a big hard anvil it's totally doable for a limited run of pieces. Been doing this since 17 years old, full time and part time paying jobs for a little more than 20 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 The complaint sounds a little like what some members here use to say about me using a 4.6# cross pein as my normal forging hammer, talking about it was too heavy, it was slowing me down, blah blah, until some of them were at a hammer in with me. I swung that faster than most of them with their 2# or 3# Hammers and I am accurate. I don't hear that its too heavy for me anymore... But I can understand how a person can think that just because they do a thing one way , others must be the same. Oh... about the starting post.... 1 or 2 heats for me, and If Thomas Powers says he can do it in only 1-2 heats, I believe him, if you are smart you will listen to him also Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beammeupscotty Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 Brian and others (Uri Hofi springs to mind) have videos showing just this already posted. Wouldn't want to do it all day without the power hammer whirring away, but by hand being well in practice and using a big hard anvil it's totally doable for a limited run of pieces. Been doing this since 17 years old, full time and part time paying jobs for a little more than 20 years. How about a link then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 I would probably do it in two, one to draw the taper and one to round. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJS Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arkie Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 Brian makes it look so easy...so smoooose. I gotta practice MORE!!! BTW, Brian...what weight is the rounding hammer you're using? if you don't mind my asking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ausfire Posted March 26, 2014 Author Share Posted March 26, 2014 Thank you for all your answers.It's not that I want to do these tapers superfast or anything, I just wondered what the 'normal' was. I admit (especially after watching that video) that my technique in using the far edge of the anvil may be somewhat lacking and I will practise more.My tapers usually take about 6 or 7 heats. About 3 or 4 to make the taper and a couple more to more to round it and clean up the hammer marks. Maybe I should hit a bit harder.I agree though, that we shouldn't be in a hurry and I'm happy to go along at an easy pace, especially since I'm not under pressure to turn out stuff on a commercial basis.I like doing the finials and twists etc, but find tapering a bit onerous. More practice required. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianbrazealblacksmith Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 You're welcome, Borntoolate! There are different hammers in some of the videos that range from 3 pounds to 6 pounds, but for most of my work I use about a 3 1/2 pound hammer. I traded my 6 pounder with Alec for his 4 1/2 pounder that I made with him the year before last, arkie. Beammeupscotty, you should take some videos of yourself and see why it's taking you so many heats. I learn a lot from watching others especially when there having a hard time at it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
basher Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 I do not count heats... ever. I have a forge running constantly and never work one piece at a time even when working on different projects at the same time. so I have hot work ready to be forged . what does a heat mean? 10 seconds..... 3 minutes. I think for the sake of doing work quickly the number of heats is completely irrelevant, as opposed to the time spent forging, after all we do not charge by the heat but by the hour....... Better to do it in 3 hot heats and have back in the fire quickly each time than to wast time and effort in one heat where you are bashing cooling steel. so for me it would be 2 or 3 heats ( but like I said I don't count. I do however often time jobs with a stop watch.....) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianbrazealblacksmith Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 I've done a lot of production where I'm forging hundreds of the same thing, and I definitely count the heats and the hits. That is how I know what to charge. I've learned to rate my hammer just like a power hammer and use the appropriate hammer for the job at hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arftist Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 100,000 hours. That's 80 hours a week for 25 years, doing nothing else at all during those entire 80 hours except forging. Really? just to get 80 hours in a week is working 12 hours Mon thru Sat and 8 on Sunday, every week for 25 years, without ever taking a day off. I know you are skilled, hardworking, inventive and innovative but that is a lot of hours Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianbrazealblacksmith Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 Arftist, I don't say that to brag. It is just the facts. I've been doing this since I was 20 and mostly 7 days a week 12 to 18 hours a day and I have more than 100,000 hours in with a hand hammer. I've slowed down a bit since I hit 50 four years ago, but I'm still out there at it almost every day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 Note that "taper" does not mean "Taper to a point" This could be for the handle end of a poker and only taper slightly---or taper to a rat tail---big difference in the amount of work involved! Brian could you take that 4" to a 2' long rat tail in one heat? It's a "taper"! I try not to assume that a new person is doing things the way I do or using the words they way I do; been teaching folks smithing for over 30 years and have learned over and over that folks don't necessarily think the way I do. My wife teached spinning (for over 40 years now) and her first class is several hours going over the jargon of spinning so that her students can understand what she is teaching them and ask questions properly! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianbrazealblacksmith Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 I think he meant what most every one thought he meant, Thomas, or he would have said otherwise by now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 And perhaps now he will be more careful with the details on the next question---ever work a job where the customer's description of what they wanted didn't match up with what you saw in your mind when they gave it? I've even done miniatures before to make sure the customer and I were using terms the same way. Or should we encourage sloppy questions and just assume *we* know and perhaps lead them astray. (and yes my pickiness was a trial for my kids growing up; on the other hand my eldest daughter was accepted to every vet school she applied to---5 IIRC; so it did have some advantages.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arftist Posted March 26, 2014 Share Posted March 26, 2014 · Hidden by Glenn, March 26, 2014 - No reason given Hidden by Glenn, March 26, 2014 - No reason given 100,000 hours. That's 80 hours a week for 25 years, doing nothing else at all during those entire 80 hours except forging. Really? just to get 80 hours in a week is working 12 hours Mon thru Sat and 8 on Sunday, every week for 25 years, without ever taking a day off. Between you and Boggs, the ego trips this week are a bit overwhelming. I know you are skilled, hardworking, inventive and innovative but get serious. Arftist, you sir are being shut down until you learn some manners you and beemmeupscotty seem to have a burr stuck somewhere Send me a PM or an e-mail, and or do the math yourself. Brian Brazeal does NOT have 100,000 hours. Furthermore he came on here yesterday and belittled 12 different posters and no one cared. I have made significant contributions to this site in the 6 years I have been posting here. My e-mail addy is fire.artist@hotmail .com I expect an actual reply or you can delete my account. I once talked to Glen for 3 hours so I doubt he did this, but if it was you Glen, then all the more are you aware of your ;loss. Link to comment
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