ShawnW Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 Well is it? I'll be the first to admit that I'm new at this, but the desire to build my own forge isn't there. I've read about twenty threads so far about people collecting tools and gearing up to make their own forge be it a gas or solid forge. I'm just curious, does making a forge make you that much more of an expert? I would rather buy a cayenne chile forge and get started in learning how to shape metal to my design than work on a forge that may or may not produce acceptable heats. What's the benefit of building your own? I understand if it's about money and you want to make everything you need rather than purchasing it, but if an individual lacks enough money to buy the necessary tools, should they really be starting a new hobby anyway? If you can do it and have the skills to produce a successful forge that works relatively well, then by all means do it. I also understand if you're in a location geographically that doesn't have the availability of local supplies. But if you're like me and just learning, should we be focused on how to build a forge, or should we be focused on learning the basics of smithing? Am I just defunct in some way and should just build my own forge? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Ivan Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 If you can spend $1000 on a forge lucky you, but most people I know don't have that much money to throw around especially on something they are just starting out at. Forges can be built very easily and cheaply, so the only way I can see justifying spending that much on a forge is if you are making a living from forging already and need something more industrial. Building your own forge does not make you "more of an expert" as a smith but it does make you a more frugal and self-reliant smith. The first blacksmith likely used a hole in the ground for a forge, a rock for a hammer and a bigger rock for an anvil. Some parts of the world, it is still done that way. You don't NEED expensive fancy tools to make beautiful work, just a good understanding of what you are doing and what the metal will do. You don't need to have a buch of money saved up to start doing this at all because you can find the majority of the things you need to get set up at flea markets, yard sales, and scrap yards for fractions of what they cost. If you have the money to spend and won't lose sleep over putting a bunch of money into something you are just starting out with, go for it. Many of us built our shops up for the cost of that forge though. -Crazy Ivan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan C Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 "What's the benefit of building your own?" I like to weld, access to scrap materials, like to make something out of nothing, money is tight, I can build it exactly like I want. I use my forge table also as a welding table, even an occasional sawhorse, and it was built in less than a day. I also don't worry about it getting scratched or making modifications to it as I see fit. If I had had the spare cash I would've rather spent the money on a tool that I couldn't build for myself. Don't forget you'll need an anvil or a big chunk of steel and other expenses may come along, including fuel. One thing I like about this hobby is learning to be creative and making something out of nothing, or what someone else would throw away. Then you hear often about making your own tongs. Yes, I've made 2 pairs but then I've bought 3 because it was faster and suited my purposes better. Do what suits you, not somebody else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShawnW Posted February 7, 2014 Author Share Posted February 7, 2014 Let's say cost isn't a driving factor of making my own forge and that I want to get started as quickly as possible actually shaping metal. What are the benefits of building over buying? Here's why I ask: I could drop a couple of grand on a new shop if I wanted too but I don't. I live in a neighborhood and will be working out of my garage so I've ruled coal/waste oil/induction out for now and am going to go with a gas forge. The plug-n-play aspect of the Chile forges that are right up the road from me make it seem ideal instead of wasting my time trying to build something that may not work. I don't want to drop thousands of dollars on new equipment, but I don't want to waste a lot of money/time trying to figure out how to build my own forge. It's not that I'm unwilling to come up with something that would work, I'm just not interested in spending countless hours tweaking something over and over again until I essentially have a well-performing tool. I'd rather just buy a well-performing tool and go from there. I want to focus on having a good understanding of what I am doing and what the metal will do and it just seems more important to start with a forge that at least performs well. So if I'm going to spend a lot of money on something my guess is that it should be the forge. I'm pretty certain I can find an anvil that will suffice eventually and other tools that I will need, used rather than new. Thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShawnW Posted February 7, 2014 Author Share Posted February 7, 2014 Dan C: Isn't the forge another tool that I can't currently build myself? I could buy a used welder and peruse the scrap yard and hollow out an old steel container or pipe and make my own etc but I don't see how that gets me to working with hammer and anvil any faster. I appreciate the learning experience of doing something like that and maybe after I have done this for awhile I design a forge that suits my purposes better after I learn what they are. But right now I'm trying to decide if I'm losing out on something important by deciding to buy rather than build. Thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rashelle Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 Do what you will. As long as you'll enjoy it it is all good. A good anvil will be spendy but sounds like not really an issue for you. What would probly be one of the best bets for you would be to spend money on lessons. That will take you the furthest, the fastest, and won't eat a lot of the disposeable income. See how well you enjoy it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan C Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 Then do what's right for you at your current skill set level and available tools. My forge is a coal/charcoal burner, basically fast & easy to make. If I'd gone with propane it'd have taken longer and stretched my abilities more. I do most of all my own automotive work, but my automatic transmission was slipping and needed to be rebuild. Could I have done it myself? Probably but I decided to instead pull it myself and take it to a shop because sometimes it makes more sense to have someone else do the work. Do what works for you. Rashelle's right btw, spend what money you can on lessons. You could even forgo the forge & tools for now and just join your local ABANA group or take some classes to get an idea if you like it or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShawnW Posted February 7, 2014 Author Share Posted February 7, 2014 I'm planning on taking a welding class in March, which reminds me I need to sign up for it. It's mon and wed for 8 weeks at a local high school. After that I don't know. I've looked for classes in the area but many are quite a drive away. I'll keep looking though and there was a resource here that listed local blacksmiths so I'll delve into that as soon as I can. I graduate next week so I should have more time after that to spend focused on this endeavor. Just to be clear, what you guys are saying is that I may lose out on being a frugal self-sustaining smith if I buy one but having the time to learn and enjoy the craft is what is important? I think I'm going to buy one. Chile-forge has a backlog of 6-8 weeks right now so I have time to mull this decision over and discuss finances with my better half. Any ideas on how to sell the wife on this project? Any and all thoughts on this topic have been and will continue to be appreciated. Thank you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan C Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 Just realized you're in San Antonio. Look up Balcones Forge and read about the upcoming events. Really great group of people and there are some fantastic learning opportunities coming up. I'm kicking myself for not being able to make the next 2 meetings which look really, really good, but family comes first and there are conflicts on each one. Invite your wife along, especially to the Mark Aspery demo in Marble Falls and take her out to eat at the Blue Bonnet Cafe. http://www.balconesforge.org/ Yep, do what works for you and your family but I would attend these meetings before you invest a lot of time and money into something. I went to the November meeting and all the newbies especially got a lot of time at the forge & anvil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Ivan Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 I think the best way to sell this to the wife would be to show her pictures of beautiful works done by other smiths and promise to make nice things for her :) . As I mentioned, if you have they money, go for it, but if you don't then the money would be well spent on lessons instead. Remember that the tools won't make you a better smith, but they sure can make your life easier. The most important thing is to do what you love and love what you do. -Crazy Ivan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the iron dwarf Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 there are plans for gas forges here and experts to help you so it could be a question of just putting together a few parts and none or very little tweaking and tinkering with it to get it working right but you would learn by doing it and save a bunch of money and get a forge more in line with what you want. im no expert on gassers, I do make solid fuel forges and lots of people like to buy something ready to go Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GNJC Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 Unless you are going to start preaching to others about what is best I wouldn't worry yourself about anybody else's opinion on this matter. If you want to build a forge do it, if you want to buy one buy it. As long as the forge you end up with has the ability to create and hold a fire hot enough to burn steel, it will be fine for any smithing you will do. Don't misunderstand me, there is a huge amount of wisdom available on this site and a superbly collegiate spirit too; but 'ethics' - which is what this question really boils down to - are personal and rarely objective. Best advice above... get lessons from a good teacher and then practice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaughnT Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 Heck, do what you want. As long as you're being responsible and not spending money that you can't afford to waste on something you don't need, who cares what you're doing? Certainly not I! Building a forge doesn't need a welder. The best design, in my opinion, is weld-free and easy to make out of basic scraps. Were I to spend money on anything, it would be a professionally-made burner. The key, though, is doing what you like and can afford. For most folks, myself included, buying a forge that costs $400 or more just isn't in the cards - especially when I can get the insulation and fabricate one for significantly less than that. There's nothing wrong with Plug-n-Play if you can afford it, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeremy k Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 Shawn, quit wasting time asking for approval.....get a forge and start hammering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmoothBore Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 Some of us are "into" the Traditions of Blacksmithing, as a Craft, ... and take pleasure in making things that are FUNCTIONAL, as well as Attractive.. Others are more interested in "artistic" Ironwork, ... with less interest in the associated Traditions. Personally, ... I'm somewhere in the middle ..... Yes, there's a bit of "Reverse Snobbery" out there, ... with certain factions trying to out-do each other, ... in making "Junkyard" creations. In my opinion, these rarely work very well, ... and serve no practical purpose, ... due to their very short life span. But that's mostly about your perspective. I've built fairly sophisticated machinery for the past 40 years, ... so making a working Forge doesn't provide me with a sense of Accomplishment, ... but it does provide a certain Satisfaction to do, ... even quite simple things, ... well. But that's just me. For the young guy, who's never really made anything with his own hands, ... assembling the materials, and putting together a working Forge, ... no matter how crude, ... is a "milestone" accomplishment, ... of which he can be rightfully Proud. For someone who's not seeking that particular kind of "validation", ... it's probably a better choice, to buy a proven product, that gets you what you want, while requiring little of your time and energy. In short, ... everyone should just ... "Suit Yourself" . :P . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratel10mm Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 What Jeremy said. Besides, I think you have a good point, especially considering you want a gas forge. And definitely invest in an introductory course. Three days or so of forging will quickly show you whether this is something that you want to persue, or not. If you do, then you'll have an understanding of most or all of the basic techniques & so forth to build on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShawnW Posted February 8, 2014 Author Share Posted February 8, 2014 the iron dwarf: You have an excellent point, and if I can't convince my wife that buying one outright is what I should do, I may find the blueprints for one of these forges and sneak parts in the garage pieces at a time. I'll be up and running before she knows what happened. Smooth Bore: You also have an excellent point in that I don't need to be 'validated,' by making my own forge as I have a multitude of other accomplishments at this point. While I suppose that the information will be useful later on after I've developed a taste for what characteristics I need, I don't really feel the need to do it right now. I do need an introductory course, and a intermediate and advanced course as well, but not to see if I would like it. This stuff has fascinated me for years and I'm finally near a position where I may be able to start actually doing it. The closest work I've done is a lot of chainmail which is vastly different. I'll see if I can make it up to Marble Falls in March and find an introductory course nearby. Thanks for all the viewpoints everyone, you have all been very helpful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arkie Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 I've read the posts in this thread and it appears that you want to do the "quick and dirty" approach by not building anything to get started, but just want to "turn and burn" as Jody, the welder says. I see no fault in wanting to buy something ready to use; different strokes for different folks; and if that's what it takes to get you started working with metal, then so be it. Lots of folks get impatient when they want to start a new venture, and wonder why they can't just "do it". Get your ready-made forge; learn to use it; most of all, take some instructions from some experienced smiths nearby such as the Balcones group, learn to ask questions and most of all....watch and listen. Use the resources on IFI to the fullest. The one thing that you will NOT be able to short cut and avoid spending some time doing is.....practice. You will have to spend HOURS working with the hammer and anvil, working metal and making lots of mistakes...learning from those mistakes. I hope with your determination to get started and enthusiasm you express, that you will take the time to be patient and learn. Crawl...walk...run. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LastRonin Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 ShawnW: Whether you build or buy your forge, I don't doubt you will be hooked on the heating and beating of metals at temperatures which would quiver the livers of lesser men. :D I'm only a beginner myself, so nowhere near an expert. I built my own forge because I couldn't afford to buy one. I am enjoying this new hobby without having to shell out large amounts of money. I see no reason fun hobbies can't be started without large expense accounts. As to 'basics of blacksmithing'... I would think that building a forge could easily be considered a basic skill. But in my own personal opinion, not one that is absolutely necessary for everyone wanting to take up learning to smith. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 There is also the intermediate step: build the forge a simple and fast task and buy a good burner one much more difficult to do on your own. It really doesn't take several hundred dollars to place US$20 of kaowool in a easily sourced container... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notownkid Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 I have pictures of original forges made from large flat rocks stacked up, No welding needed. And it's environmentally friendly! Of course you have to burn coal in it. If you can afford to buy a forge and all needed tools I'm happy for you! When you get bored with it I'll give you $ .01 on the dollar and take them off your hands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 Good grief Shawn, considering all the time you've spent airing on the inconsequential you could've mowed enough lawns to buy a forge. You don't even need a drill motor to build a working gas forge but who cares. It's in your court to spend more time looking for something you can point to as a personal . . . whatever, or you could just do IT. The only "Superior" that counts in a true craft is: better, faster, cheaper, easier. Improve any one and your profit margin increases. How you count your profit is your business. For the record, NO THING about manual blacksmithing is "necessary" Virtually anything we make can be bought at a fraction of the cost almost anywhere in the USA. WE do this because we want to, personally making steel plastic and forming it to MY will sings to my soul. But that's me. In short do whatever you want, dig a hole make a bellows from a paper bag and burn deer crap or spend tens of thousands on an industrial forge. The only person it'll make any difference to is YOU. If YOU want to build a gas forge and need a hand, just ask we'll be happy to help. If not . . . Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neg Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 To me, I enjoyed building my own forge because I love 'creating'. Anything I can build with my hands and make beautiful I love, plus it's quite satisfying knowing that not only did you forge something , but you built the forge you heated it in and forged the hammer you beat the metal with, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShawnW Posted February 8, 2014 Author Share Posted February 8, 2014 I think Vaughn T and Thomas Powers have the right of it. I may be able to save some money by just buying a commercially produced burner and looking up a recipe for a gas forge here on the website. And Frosty, I cant start anything until the 17th at the earliest as that is the first Monday I will be finished with my graduate degree, so all questions are getting answered now befote I get going. So now I guess the question is, how many burners do I want? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GNJC Posted February 8, 2014 Share Posted February 8, 2014 And anyway... how many second, third and fourth etc. generation smiths who took over a family business built their own forges? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.