TyeBledsoe Posted September 15, 2011 Share Posted September 15, 2011 I live in coal country an there is a lot of heavy mining equipment to cut coal, sandstone or whatever else that run into miles underground. Here's my question they're are cutting teeth on the head of the continuous miner called Bits here's what the look like new, bad link 404 These things have diamond tips and eventually break the base is made from tungsten carbide, can I forge this? is it safe? is it going to give of deadly fumes? I don't know anything about this stuff. the mines throws these things away. I was seeing I could forge these things into useful tools that I could use around the shop. If not they have plenty of 1090 stuff laying around gathering rust I can ask, but they usually reuse that and cut that up and weld it to broken pieces. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattBower Posted September 15, 2011 Share Posted September 15, 2011 I'm pretty sure the points on those are the tungsten carbide part. The rest of the tooth -- the part they're throwing away when the carbide wears out -- is likely steel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted September 15, 2011 Share Posted September 15, 2011 That whole page never says diamond on it. They would be pushing that if they were using it. So like the post above it Tungsten Carbide probably mounted in an Abrasion Resistant steel. Can't forge Tungsten Carbide and AR steel can be useful for tooling but the shape is not a real helpful one to start from. Places buy tungsten carbide scrap. I'd see about selling it and buying known good steel. However if you do find one with little wear see if it can be used as a drift, IIRC Hoffi uses drifts made from tungsten carbide tank penetraters... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rthibeau Posted September 15, 2011 Share Posted September 15, 2011 tungsten carbide and tungsten itself cannot be forged....it breaks apart. The tungsten Hofi uses is from the penetrating tips of anti-tank ammunition and is mostly tungsten, not a carbide. It's not forged to shape, it is ground or sanded to shape. And it is not struck directly by a hammer but attached to a mandrel to absorb the shock. Used in a press it is great stuff for making holes in steel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattBower Posted September 15, 2011 Share Posted September 15, 2011 A while back I incorrectly said penetrators are made of tungsten carbide, and someone here (I don't remember who -- maybe rthibeau) corrected me. That got me curious, since WC was the only form of mostly-tungsten material that I was familiar with. In case anyone's interested, I'm pretty sure they're made of one of these alloys, or something similar: http://www.mi-techmetals.com/hd-typical.htm I bet that stuff is spendy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TyeBledsoe Posted September 16, 2011 Author Share Posted September 16, 2011 Its a no go on those bits, I went to the mines today to look at them, they are so degraded and like y'all said you cant forge them and they are around 2 1/2 to 3 inches round to big for a punch. I'll check out that site Mister Bower suggested but I did pick up some nice bolts they use to hold up the roof of the mines, there about 6 foot long I'm not sure of the hardness, but I did try to cut it with a file and hack saw no nicks or cuts I'm sure that make some handy tools. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattBower Posted September 16, 2011 Share Posted September 16, 2011 I wouldn't bother trying to buy any of that tungsten alloy. If you could find it, I bet it'd be insanely expensive. (If I had known fifteen years ago what I know now, I would've brought a couple of those penetrators back from the desert out at 29 Palms, instead of the aluminum base of a tank shell.) I just posted it for general information. Those bolts sound interesting, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted September 16, 2011 Share Posted September 16, 2011 BP1013 Tungsten tools Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGGUNDOCTOR Posted September 17, 2011 Share Posted September 17, 2011 Carbide is used on just the tip, the main body is a steel alloy. Carbide melts at 5,200 + degrees. The sizes that you listed would be good for hardies, and matching top tools. Scrap carbide is over $10 a pound the last time I checked. Toss them in the forge to shape, and toss the tip into a bucket when it desolders itself. Don't give up on them so fast. Grab a couple, and see what you can do with them. Free is free, you won't lose anything money wise, but you will gain some knowledge. To get them down to a more manageable size you can cut them down with a saw.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spurrit Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 That whole page never says diamond on it. They would be pushing that if they were using it. So like the post above it Tungsten Carbide probably mounted in an Abrasion Resistant steel. Can't forge Tungsten Carbide and AR steel can be useful for tooling but the shape is not a real helpful one to start from. Places buy tungsten carbide scrap. I'd see about selling it and buying known good steel. However if you do find one with little wear see if it can be used as a drift, IIRC Hoffi uses drifts made from tungsten carbide tank penetraters... A gunsmith friend of mine uses .50 cal AP bullets to make punches on his lathe because they're made of tungsten. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Yup I have one for use as a center punch---but generally for cold metal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Allyn Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Do I recall correctly that tungsten carbide can be brazed onto the tip of a tool? Perhaps you could cut some small pieces with your grinder and braze them onto the tips of some cutting tools, maybe lathe tools. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Allyn Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Maybe this will help. http://www.carbideprocessors.com/pages/brazing-carbide/brazing-tungsten-carbide.html And check out Weyger's book. He talks about silver soldering tungsten carbide tool tips. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Many years ago in a previous life we used to silver solder or braze carbide tips onto mild steel shanks to make turning tools, Both items to be secured together were ground, We used sheet silver solder or brass, and borax for a flux the wire or sheet was cut to shape and placed between the tip and steel body, Heat was then applied mainly onto the thicker steel shank initially using a gas/air torch, then as the borax started to mel, the whole tip/shank brought up to final heat, you would see the tip settle and solder/brass ooze out as the tip settled, withdraw heat and allow to cool slowly Tips may chip in use, but I cant recall them coming apart on the braze line. For larger tips we sometimes used a close woven brass mesh as the solder medium The tungsten carbides we used were mostly sintered powders rather than a solid grained mass which negated any forging on them as they would just disintegrate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Allyn Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 For larger tips we sometimes used a close woven brass mesh as the solder medium. Can you elaborate on that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 We used Kennametal teeth in our drill bits for years. The tips are sintered tungsten carbides silver brazed or brazed to the shanks. The tungsten carbides are NOT forgable. The shanks are good steel of a VERY durable medium C nature though I don't know a specific alloy. You can contact Kennametal and ask, they were very helpful when I was messin with the things. The shanks take brazing heat , high orange without degrading so they may be a high alloy though I never tried quenching or tempering them. Sintering is putting powdered metals of the desired types in a mold and pressing it till it's fused, usually to a medium yellow heat. Sometimes the mix is preheated or induction heated before squoze. (pressed <grin>) Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John B Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Can you elaborate on that? At that time it was a commercially availble product, much like the mesh used for spark guards (woven wire) but on a smaller scale. It was cut to shape/size using snips, and fluxed with a borax mix which was a paste made from water(usually spit for small amounts) which was then spread all over the mesh, this ensured fluxing all the mating surfaces, the brass mesh melting and bonding the parts when heated, you could see it flow when the correct temperature was reached We also used to have silver solder in various ring sizes, as well as sheet and ribbon It was an engineering toolroom I was working in as part of my apprenticeship in the mid part of the last century Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Allyn Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 Thanks, John. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sptools Posted May 4, 2013 Share Posted May 4, 2013 Yes, it is a fine gray powder, but it can be pressed and formed into shapes for use in industrial machinery, tools etc.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted May 4, 2013 Share Posted May 4, 2013 Welcome aboard, glad to have you. If you'll put your general location in your header it'll save folk from having to ask. You're talking sintering which is entirely different from forging. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hummppff Posted November 11, 2019 Share Posted November 11, 2019 Tungsten's highest melting point is 6,192 degF. Just heating it up in a normal forge, as I've seen people try, probably doesn't get it hot enough. I'm sure people have tried getting it close to the meting point and tried, but have yet to see reports of it. Does anyone have a data source describing the various attempts at forging tungsten or tungsten carbide? I would think that maybe running electric current through let's say a bar of it getting it close to the melting point might work, if one wants to try the Neanderthal method to try to forge it, then whacking it with a hammer. The technology which should be developed in all cases when it come to creation of physical structures is atom by atom 3D printers that can print out any atom and place any where one wants to and the structures for 'Grown' in a computer to allow for the strongest shape of the object using the least amount of material. Forged tungsten carbide using the least amount of material could replace titanium in aircraft and also be non-ferromagnetic (Stealth aircraft etc). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pnut Posted November 11, 2019 Share Posted November 11, 2019 (edited) Did you try googling tungsten carbide forging specifications? As far as attempts at forging I don't know any specific sources of info. You could try induction forging tungsten carbide like you mentioned above but I don't know any specific source of info on attempts at forging. Good luck Pnut Edited November 11, 2019 by pnut Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Moose Posted November 11, 2019 Share Posted November 11, 2019 I have tried to forge tungsten carbide from a broken end mill. This was folly. Even at a high yellow to white heat this stuff will NOT move even with a 5 lb hammer. Not even a dent in the carbide (hammer was a different story). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted November 11, 2019 Share Posted November 11, 2019 10 hours ago, Hummppff said: . Does anyone have a data source describing the various attempts at forging tungsten or tungsten carbide In case you did not notice, Iron can be forged because its not a true solid, it is a plastic. As such, rather than become a puddle like ice, there is no real change of state, rather it gets softer as its temperature nears the melting point. Tungsten Carbide does not forge because its is a true solid. Look those details up after reading the rest of this thread Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted November 11, 2019 Share Posted November 11, 2019 I would not think Tungsten Carbide could replace Ti in aircraft, when you get it thin enough to be light enough then the brittleness would be an issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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