Marc1

Very small anvil. I also have a 25 lb Kohlswa, more for fun than any practical use. I do use it for very small stuff just because I can plunk it on the bench at any time. I suppose you already have a larger one?

So if it is bucketing down can we use it to debate climate ? I remember some time ago i had a formula to guesstimate anvil weight from it's measurements. It worked most of the time but not always and ... I can't remember it exactly. The idea was to multiply all 3 dimensions as if it is a prism and multiply it by a factor ... I think it was 1/7 or 1/8 something like that.

Yes, interesting replies. I hope no one minds if I continue on this philosophical exchange. Thomas, I am aware of both sides of the global warming debate. I only called it as an example of something that shows how intransigent people can become based on their own convictions on a subject where clearly no one knows much at all, even if everyone pretends to be an expert and have "all the science" in their favour. Historical examples abound ... geocentrism, flat earth, witches ... (Who said climate is what you hope for and weather is what you get?) Imagine what would happen if you jump on a soapbox at the next blacksmith demo and start disserting on your version of events on climate. Do you think you will get some very convinced fellows challenging you? You bet! Your field opponent will be fierce and convinced of your ignorance and the need to give you a verbal beating, yet despite his zeal, it is highly likely that your hypothetical denigrator just like everyone else, knows very little about anything to do with climate, but has his values, beliefs and convictions lined up and set in concrete from age 10. All he has done since then is look for anything that is compatible with what he already believes and is convinced of. Not searching for knowledge or truth, but for a compatible prefabricated set of values that fits nicely with the array of values he has accepted without much challenge way before he had the age to discern. Rocky ... my previous post may give the impression I support relativism. i don't. I respect moral absolutes and those who have the fortitude to defend and uphold them even if it leads to a temporary loss. Challenge moral absolutes with relativism is the job some politicians seem to enjoy, and whoever does not compromise his own values is intolerant ... apparently. My interest in this topic has to do with what seems imperative for the human being, to align, associate, group, label, pigeonhole or in some way or another feel that "we" are part of something that thinks in one way whilst "they" on the other hand must be placed in such other category because ... well, take your pick. Since humans are gregarious this is understandable and it leads to those who join a train of thought to belong ... without much scrutiny, or the opposite, to challenge and show to be a contrarian and therefore belong ... well somewhere else. I bet many wars have started with this mechanism.

Convictions are a double edged sword ... They are rigid, intransigent, and most of the time restricted and punctual. All rather negative connotations. If you ever get into a debate about "global warming", that is the hypothesis that human activity generated CO2 is producing catastrophic changes to the climate, you will be able to see how harmful convictions and beliefs can be to any side, in any exchange. I remember the times when doctors would ridicule patients who believed vitamins would help them recover and how they used to scoff them by saying it makes for expensive urine. It took decades to change this attitude and a little known attempt by the european union parliament in Brussels to pass legislation that supplements need a prescription. European citizen where so incensed that they sent millions of emails to the parliamentarians and crashed the computers for many days. I know a little about a few things, perhaps a bit more than average in some subjects, however I am utterly aware of my limitations and that I, like most folks know very little about almost everything. If you add to that the little we know about what we assume to be real and what probably is not, the words of Socrates (or Plato if you wish) seem the most appropriate ... "The only thing I know ... is that I know nothing" ... This makes convictions and firm beliefs so very relative.

Sure, cast is lighter, and the cheaper it is the lighter it is. Cast for an anvil must be of higher quality or it would have not survived, so the difference is less than 10% for the lower section. We are talking approximation here, a bit like that other anvil and the bucket standing under it. I hope Mr Humphrey will post the weight and see if I am off and by how much

334 lb ... give or take Hint ... one cubic inch of steel weights 0.283 lb

I replied to an ad on Gumtree that posted a NC anvil (the one called Big face anvil) and a homemade gas forge, fairly large one with two burners. I was interested in the gas forge but would have paid may be $200 for it. This guy, a retired farrier posted both anvil and forge for $2000 Australians some $1600 US. I sent a message asking if he would sell the forge on it's own to what he replied no. So i passed to tell him that NC in the states sells that particular anvil (70lb) for $290 new and that considering exchange rate and shipping for 30 kilos and the very used forge that needed the welding grinded off to replace the lining, best I could pay for the lot was $500. Needless to say he did not accept and made a counter offer of $1000. I am not sure who in his right mind would pay those prices for an anvil that is in current production and that can be bought online from the manufacturer. Having said that, the same anvils are sold by other farrier suppliers in the US for prices that are almost double what the manufacturer sells them for. If you would try to do this with a different product, a vehicle, powertools, anything, you would be laughed out the door.

When I was working in a government office I had a copy of D&K framed on my desk. In my view most people who hold office and their minions managing government departments qualify for the " cognitive bias of illusory superiority ". Going back to the original post by Das, he was telling us his experience with people who had gained some slanted view of some aspects of blacksmithing and were quick to pass their opinion as fact, with Das' understandable annoyance. The reasons why the public may behave like that is complex and sure, generally speaking in some cases D&K seems to provide an explanation of interest for a sociologist. I was interested in pointing out that it is far more productive to gain the person's trust then it is to expose the person to ridicule. Easy to say from my armchair of course and may be obvious in hindsight yet hard to control in that moment. Just an observation. And to make sure, not a negative reflection on Das who I held in high esteem. Just like I do Frost Oh and you too ...

Frosty ... I am sorry you need a sticker on your computer. As far as I am concerned I am unable to hold a grudge for more than a day or two. Life is too interesting to do that. I think that Dunning and Kruger is overkill for what Das has described. It implies that the person doing the questioning is "a person of low abilities incapable to recognise it's own ineptitude". Way too many assumptions for a situation that you correctly describe as a natural result of our human nature. And then again it focuses on 'the other person' when this case it seems, should focus on the one that actually knows his stuff.

Check for Thomas' "anvil acquisition technique" ... besides being rather funny it works. There are thousands of anvils under peoples workbench , in garages and even in gardens. Having said that, if I was living in the states and had $500 to spend on a smaller anvil I would just buy a NC anvil new and not bother with ancient abused tools. Check for NC anvils or NC tool company. They make smaller anvils for farriers that besides looking rather cool and out of the ordinary london pattern boring style, are very cheap . Another little known source of anvils is Perun in Poland.

A reply that starts with a "yes you are right", or "I absolutely agree" followed by what you would have said anyway, defuses tension, makes the other party believe they actually are onto something and will wrestle his attention for a few seconds anyway. If you have ever trained salesman you would be familiar with this. Reminds me when I worked in a shop fitting factory and would talk to myself whilst working and taking measurements. I would say 22.6 to 226mm because I thought in cm and not mm. Wasn't bothering anyone but others took offence, thought I was incompetent and referred to my measurements as "alien language". Far from becoming incensed I thought it was rather funny that people would be so provincial, and decided to make fun of myself by using the most extravagant measuring unit I cold fathom (pun intended) and correcting myself in the process, it soon become a joke and no one bothered me anymore after a nundinae or two.

I have never done demos, in fact I don't even allow people in my workshop whilst I am working, but I can imagine they can be a very ungrateful experience. My wife tells me I should start something in the local "men's shed" ... I think she is trying to get rid of me

Perhaps my example of doctor patient is not the best one. A doctor has to deal with a lot of other factors in a 5 minute consultation besides the patient own bias and misconceptions. Think of the major ones, vaccinations, antibiotics and Xrays. Vaccinations refusal has social consequences, demanding antibiotics when it is not required has a cascading effect, the request of an xray or MRI or CT in the belief that it will somehow cure has economic repercussions in a country that provides everything for free ... sorry not free, just using my money. So perhaps a better example is the religious one. I understand that a little known trade like Blacksmithing is obscure to most folks and when a TV series seems to uncover all the secrets to the viewer, the experts abound. It is a given that such armchair expertees is bound to clash when someone in the know hears or is challenged by such bogus knowledge, however the way we respond to those challenges makes all the difference. I remember with some trepidation my times as an amateur evangelist. New to the faith full of zeal and in my twenties, I was ready for any challenge. I studied all the denominations and what each of them thought in detail. I had a reply for every challenge, from the agnostic and the atheist to the JW and the 7DA and the Mormon and the Mason, the Catholic the Pentecostal and everyone else, I knew where to strike ... yet I made no converts. I was winning every battle but lost the war. Because I thought it was about me, but it is actually about the other guy, that one that irritates you and tells you that you are choking the hammer or that you hit like a girl or that you will burn the iron, that the anvil needs the face milled, or whatever they say because they believe it. There is a complex process behind every belief and it is very difficult to dismantle it with a frontal confrontation that usually makes it stronger. It is far better to show what we know as an alternative that can coexist with the other person's assumptions. This probably applies also to some of the answer that are given to newcomers in this forum, most likely well intentioned and that have the ability to make me livid ... but like I said ... it is not about me ... or you Das for that matter No sinner is ever saved after the first 20 minutes of a sermon ... Mark Twain

It is one thing to succumb to your own OCD and weld up a worn out anvil ... a different one to buy someone else's mistakes. Whoever welded that anvil edges, can't weld for nuts. Who knows what he used and most likely no heat treatment

I would add a few more characteristics for both rivets and bolts. Rivets are cheaper than bolts so when it is a building or a bridge, a few million fasteners make a difference in the budget. Rivets are not only cheap but made of mild or low carbon steel. This makes it easier to rivet but makes it also more susceptible to lose grip.. A slight movement in the plate and the rivet is permanently deformed and lose. A bolt depending from material used is more flexible. Rivets are associated with permanent. Bolts with demountable. A bolt besides being more expensive, can be tighten to specifications and keeps a permanent tension. If the nut is locked after tensioning it is a permanent fastener but can be dismantled anyway and the locking washer replaced as in connecting rods or propeller nuts. The question of rivet on tongs and bolts on pliers is a bit sui generis. There are pliers that are made with rivets and others that have bolts. The important difference between a tong and a set of pliers is the material they are made of. Secateurs can have bolts to compensate for wear.A tong that starts rattling is fixed with a hammer. Try that with a plier or sicateur and you are up for a new one

That anvil has not seen much work at all! I venture it was never used. Make sure you paint it red and sharpen all the edges ... noooo don't do that ... That is a $500 to $1000 gift (it would be $1500 to 2000 around here) You may burn 3 tanks of fuel ? mm ... miles ... more like 5 tanks of fuel in your car or truck, what is that $250? ... still a gift ... didn't count your time of course since you say your retired PS you don't have trucking companies around there? Way cheaper to pay someone to take it to the nearest trucking depot. I bought a Bobcat in Naples Florida a few years back and it cost me $500 to put it on a tuck and take it to the port of Huston.

That's an anticlimax ... coming from nobody special

Clearly not useful as a real anvil however I would think of a way to make it into part of a sculpture. Check your srcap pile and start thinking!

"Wikipedia states that there is no silver metal/element in German silver." So the Kaiser was a crook?

I googled german silver and it says "Silber"

As far as I know it means made to order or commissioned; be it a piece or a design does not matter.

My wife is a doctor and deals with this scenario all the time. Well not about forging but in relation to patients that argue with her after consulting Dr Google, or Dr Grandma, or the local herbalist. Sometimes she sends me a text asking if I can research a particular supplement and what it is claimed to do. Her approach is to listen what the patient believes or trusts and why do they trust a google hit more than her 30 years experience and multiple qualifications. I sometimes say to her, why do you tolerate that? Send them away! She replies, it is not about me. Her idea is that if a patient needs to google or trusts a supplement that says on the label "may be of some help for this and that symptom" more than her professional opinion, there is something wrong not with the patient but with the trust she thinks she is not conveying. Blacksmithing or rather Bladesmithing has become popular through TV series. Just like cooking and renovations. This TV series are a business created to lure the viewer in whatever way possible, not to learn but to be the target of the advertisers that pay for the slots. It is not your fault nor can you change it, and I don't think you need to feel it is your duty to do so, unless you are talking about students of yours, don't make the same mistake some religious fanatics have done in the past.

If you miss out on that deal, you can always buy that multipurpose vice I posted.

Reminds me of a bank manager a long time ago who told me that he was in the business of helping people. I had a good laugh and told him he was in the business of selling cash at a higher price than the face value. And that he shouldn't be ashamed, It is a legitimate business just like selling cheese. There is a lot to be said about the ethical pretenses of new business like Uber who exist only because of the appalling incompetence of regulators. The facade build under the assumption that there is something inherently evil about established business and making money in general is a disgrace. Only single, thin, vegetarian on push bikes are cool. Family men in their 40ties ( let alone 50ties .... eeeh shudder) building a business to make a better life for self and family are evil and not cool. A lot of today's activities and also modern day myths and legends like those related to the climate, are based on a refined and professional exploitation of stereotypes and anti-values known to be common and accepted without much scrutiny, and also known to remain unopposed by politicians whose only fear is to lose the next election. But that deserves a thread on it's own

Mm I would probably disagree with your teacher. He obviously never used L' invincibile ...