Mark Emig Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 Got this forwarded to me-what an amazing guy-84 and still working. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 Emmert Studebaker used to forge into his 90's. Stewart, I knew an 84 year old lady that drove on the wrong side of the interstate, nearly killed my Aunt. Old age does not mean doing things "right" all the time...No Verdict Returned Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iron woodrow Posted September 6, 2012 Share Posted September 6, 2012 but stewart, if you are saying that his way is the best way, you will never be his equal, because he is english! :P Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Emig Posted September 6, 2012 Author Share Posted September 6, 2012 Seems to me it's more his attitude and work ethic than his thumb placement and which way he points the horn of his anvil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seldom (dick renker) Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 a cool dude Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaughnT Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 I'd love to see more of his work. That amount of skill, learned and earned over 70 years standing at the anvil, has got to be amazing! And, yes, his horn is pointing the right way! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Emig Posted September 7, 2012 Author Share Posted September 7, 2012 The "right" way to have an anvil set in my shop is whichever way works best for the job at hand-sometimes left-sometimes right. I remember reading something about Harvey Yellin saying that when they were doing industrial work during WWII the horns were all pointed left. When they got back to decorative stuff, they pointed them right. Having only "one right way" to do something is just way too limiting for me producing work as a professional. Doing scrollwork is way easier with the horn pointed to the right,for example. I am right handed,so doing scrolls and bending with the horn to the right, I can get a much more accurate blow-there is no body of the anvil in the way to have to lean over or around. When doing something large and heavy on the horn I have the horn to the left-my blow will almost always be over the thickest part of the horn. Nol Putnam,for instance, works on an anvil from both sides-calls it dancing with an anvil-thereby having the horn whichever way works best for the op at hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimsShip Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 I've heard the thumb debate before, but never the horn one, i'd assume a left handed person would have it one way and a rightie the other. I think i have mine pointed to my left as i work, but i've never really thought about it being right or wrong, just comfortable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timothy Miller Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 I always worked with my horn pointed to the left and my thumb off the handle. If the anvil was pointed the other way It would not feel normal. I used to keep my thumb on the handle but everyone said not to so I stopped doing it. They say its bad but it never hurt me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 What, no safety glasses? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matto Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 In my thought that is why you have space around your anvil and don t have alot of stuff hanging on your stump, that way you can get to any position you need or another anvil set up to work from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iron woodrow Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 What, no safety glasses? lol. looks like 70 years is long enough to realise he doesnt need them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 I love the gentleman, heck I'd kiss him. An appointment is all you need to get shop time with him, I'd move in. Stewart: Are you really saying keeping your thumb on the side of the hammer handle is wrong? Or maybe you weren't watching while he was hammering. The still is of him just holding the hammer, when he strikes he doesn't move his thumb he rotates the hammer. I'm finding it's more useful to work the horn with it pointing straight at me. Brian Brazeal showed us the advantages of working off the end of the anvil and it sure applies to the horn. I also really like the gentleman's last words on camera. "I may live tired but I'll never be retired." Die in harness you betcha, no better way. A very good friend of mine, now passed, used to say, "Rest when you're dead!" Yeah, there was always an exclamation mark when he said. RIP Bill You de man. Frosty the Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Emig Posted September 7, 2012 Author Share Posted September 7, 2012 Yeah, I noticed the no glasses-lucky he hasn't blinded himself yet. I took a class with Mark Aspery a while back, he told a story about a smith he knew who whacked a bar on the anvil to knock off the scale-blinded himself in both eyes. You can walk with a wooden leg, but you can't see with a glass eye. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SReynolds Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 I have many books on the subject and they all have an opinion. Horn on left for right handed folks and visaversa Eye wear vs no eye wear. HOlding the hammer with thumb on the side vs atop the handle I belive them all to be opinions; if any one stops by the shop and tells me my anvil is ponted the incorrect direction and/or that I'm holding the hammer wrong, I'd be more than happy to place a bet that I could hit his/her finger if placed upon the face of the anvil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iron woodrow Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 number one, look where his thumb is on the handle of the hammer. Number two look what side the horn is on.................the prosecution rests!what I am saying is that classically trained european smiths keep their thumbs atop the handle for angular control. Nothing more, nothing less. This is how I was trained. The video, in pantomime, is saying the same thing. then why does the prosecution rest? why were they prosecuting at all? we know you were trained by a european smith....... was there any doubt??? it makes me wonder how they ever got any work done before the london pattern anvil...... or on double or multiple horned anvils!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Turley Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 The artist in Ernst Schwarzkopf's book* show an extremely large thumb in the wrap around position. By the bye, a common tennis forehand grip comes from, "Shake hands with the racket," where the thumb goes around. In the U.S., I've noticed that lots of guys use what I term "the peanut butter grip." The thumb is not on top (peanuts) nor is it wrapped around (butter), but is in between the two, on the diagonal, so to speak, meaning "peanut butter." That's shown in the photo. Not a grip I'd recommend. When I was a neophyte horseshoer, I was interested in learning more about other aspects of blacksmithing, so I visited old shops when I ran across them. Some were welding shops which still had a not oft used forge and anvil. Some horns were to the left and some were to the right. Some anvil placement was parallel to the face of the forge. Some anvils were at right angles to it. And there were varying degrees in between. One thing's for sure. I kept my trap shut. I was not about to question what these old timers had in mind when they set up shop. Starting as a right handed farrier, I got accustomed to having the anvil horn to my left, because the tong hand was to the left, and I was working primarily on the horn turning and bending shoes. Having the horn to the right would seem like working a little "cross-armed" when at the horn. A slight difference perhaps, but slight adds up over the years. As a smith, I still have the horn to my left. * "Plain and Ornamental Forging" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 Last time I got into the horn right-horn left fray I decided to do a bit of research and so started looking through "Practical Blacksmithing", Richardson, a collection of articles from a Smithing Journal from the 1880's and 1890's. First shop layout I found had the anvil's horn pointed directly towards the forge...they did wagons as I recall. Me I have anvils pointed every which way and use them all when they are the best for the job at hand---even have my lightest London Pattern anvil 90 deg and next to my heaviest anvil as the heavy one has a massive heel, (Fisher), and the lightest, (A&H), has a heel you could almost shave with---very handy for certain things I do without having to use a bridge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anvil Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 By the way, did they ever resolve the debate on how many angels fit on the head of a hammer? ;) that's what determines where yer thumb goes... Other thoughts on this topic. when you serve an apprenticeship his purpose is to teach you his way. this way you match his style, which is what his customers are paying for. When you are a Journeyman, the purpose is to learn the ways of many Masters in order to matc h their work. When you become a master in your own wright, you choose, from the sum of all your experiences how best to do your own work. This you pass on to your own students. And don't forget, nothing is written in stone, but the tools Are forged in iron. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SReynolds Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 I didn't read if anyone critized his extreamly high anvil. I have a smaller anvil that is quite high and really handy for smallligher tasks. However, I did have someone curse me for it......it it "must" be wrong. The larger of the two is at my knuckle height. THis guys anvil in the video is really really high....and he was forging on it too! I'm sorry if I have inserted yet another argument to the mix. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockstar.esq Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 My anvil horn points right (I'm right handed) mostly because my hardie hole is in the horn. I suspect having the hardie on the strong arm side is what determines orientation for lots of people. This reminds me of my electrical apprenticeship. Some journeymen believe that tools in a pouch need to be in a certain order. Some have protocol for stripping all conductors before putting the strippers away. It really seemed to me that everyone thought themselves an efficiency expert. I watched and did as I was told. In the end I mostly emulate the old fat guys. They got as much (or more) done as the young guy's but the did it without breaking a sweat. Taking their lead, I believe made me a more effective worker. Most interestingly, they wasted less material. I think in many cases it was equal parts thrift, and a desire to avoid walking to get more stock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thingmaker3 Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 Argumentum ad vericundium Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratstomper Posted September 8, 2012 Share Posted September 8, 2012 "I shall live tired, but I shan't retire." Leave it to a buncha blacksmiths to argue about correct technique when such an inspirational gem of craftsman philosophy pops up. ;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thingmaker3 Posted September 8, 2012 Share Posted September 8, 2012 Is it a syllogism when that authority is based upon a thousand years of t and e?Quite right. I stand corrected. I should have called "historian's fallacy." Sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JNewman Posted September 8, 2012 Share Posted September 8, 2012 Don't know about oldest. Leo 87 who stops by my shop weekly did get retired out of the steel mill blacksmith shop at 70 after 55years there. But he still demonstrates at a local conservation area and I believe at an annual re-enactment. And often has little projects that he borrows a fire and anvil or the hammer for from me. He still swings a mean sledge hammer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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