Authentic Iron Works Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 I think the best fuel for sustainability is wood! Trees are a renewable resource. And when you burn the wood, the co2 emmisions can be absorbed by trees. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archie Zietman Posted March 21, 2006 Author Share Posted March 21, 2006 True. Has anyone tried grinding up tree and tree like thing-matter (like leaves, roots, straw, twigs) into blocks to use that? My mum just got the garden cleaned up and I realized how much waste-burnable-dry-plant-matter there was which could be soaked in water or sticky stuff and crushed into little chunks which could be either used on their own or charcoal-ed. might give it a try...that could cut down on tree chopping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frazer Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 Even, welcome aboard. That's quite the first post. Keep in mind this thread has't has any responses since 2006. Times, opinions, people, etc. change a lot in 14 years. This is a place for smiths to share their knowledge, ideas and work with each other in civil discussion. I assure you that many of us respect the air that that keeps the forges running and the Earth that gives us the materials we use, but like any community there is a spectrum of opinions on everything and we try to avoid heated debates about "hot button" issues unless they are blacksmithing/metalwork related. In which case civil debate is welcome. Anyway, since this appears to be a topic you are very passionate about, what build did you go with for your eco forge and how has it been working for you? If you could share some pictures maybe we could take a look. We like pictures. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irondragon Forge ClayWorks Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 I saw that post before it was removed. Didn't sound like it dealt with forges, but was trying to start a political fight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 May I vote a commendation to the Moderators! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jealdi Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 Amen to that. I did not even see the post before it was removed. And I'm sitting at work with IFI open on a separate browser on it's own window while I work! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chelonian Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 I wonder how large of a Fresnel lens you would need to heat up forging stock in a timely manner. It probably wouldn't be practical but would be interesting regardless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 I looked into making a solar powered forge when I first came to New Mexico. I was going to use mirrors to direct the concentrated sun into a thick refractory lined 30 gal barrel through a slot. An old Mother Earth News had plans for a solar array based on those 1' glass mirror tiles that used to be common and even a simple tracking mechanism. (IIRC the article claimed a 1600 degF focal point!) Then I went through my first NM spring and had 80 MPH straight line winds and found out that I would need a "hardened" set up to survive the local climate and that would be too expensive for me. I'm still using propane and coal and charcoal---though not all at once. Now getting a photovoltaic system to run an induction forge would "clean things up" a lot---minus the embedded cost of producing the photovoltaics... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 I don't recall where, maybe not IFI but solar powered forges have been discussed many times as have a number of similar ideas, melters being high on the idea list. While it's surprisingly easy to do, I think Mythbusters made a fresnel melter, forge, etc. in an episode. It was probably 8' square and had a focal point of about 4" in tests it burned holes in virtually everything they put in the point in a few seconds, melting steel was frighteningly quick. In trying to come up with a usable chamber they tried a hard firebrick box and it burned through first 4 1/2" then a doubled wall, 9". Their conclusion was plausible but too dangerous to consider under any reasonable circumstances. The main danger? Sunlight is invisible and their death beam burned a bone in ham to ash in under a minute, probably took that long because of all the moisture. I have to agree, I got to mess with a small, 20" parabolic mirror for a few minutes before I became too terrified to do anything but cover it. It's focal point was something like 2mm and it'd melt a penny almost instantly. One SCARY S-O-B thing to have out on a sunny day. I highly discommend it but if you must, be CAREFUL like you're juggling invisible chain saws! Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George N. M. Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 I have a 7 foot diameter old satellite dish with mounting post and tracking motor for which I've been trying figure out a use other than scrap metal. I thought about covering it with aluminum foil and making a solar forge but I realized that I would have to build a platform to hold all the forging equipment because the focal point would be up to about 6' off the ground depending on the time of day and season and would be constantly moving. Frosty's remarks make me glad that I did not go down that road. "By hammer and hand all arts do stand." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheWanderingLlama Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 NREL has this system which can get up to 3000 C with 10 kW of power: NREL's High-Flux Solar Furnace (HFSF) I dare somebody to forge in that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madeleine Posted January 6, 2021 Share Posted January 6, 2021 I have been wondering about more sustainable methods to begin my blacksmithing journey! Currently researching forge styles and leaning toward propane due to the lower carbon content. What about planting a tree each time your forge something as a practical token of respect? That's something I want to do either way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted January 6, 2021 Share Posted January 6, 2021 Welcome aboard Madeleine, glad to have you. If you put your general location in the header you'll have a better chance of hooking up with members living within visiting distance. What about planting trees, if you'd like why not? If you wish to tie forestry to blacksmithing how about forging tools commonly used in forestry. Propane is a petro chemical who's carbon component was locked away underground until it's extracted and then burned. If you wish to try for a carbon "neutral" forge you're stuck with charcoal. Even electricity has to be generated and unless you live near enough to a hydro electric plant to be completely supplied your electricity is burning something. Wind and solar have environmental issues as well. Before you consider a focused solar forge I must warn you they are EXTRMELY DANGEROUS!! Sunlight is invisible and you are putting your work in it's path which means YOU have to get close and you CAN NOT SEE IT. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted January 6, 2021 Share Posted January 6, 2021 When charcoal was still the predominate fuel in Europe, a significant proportion was made from coppiced trees that would produce a continual supply of wood without needing replanting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daswulf Posted January 6, 2021 Share Posted January 6, 2021 I agree with the charcoal forge and planting to restock the supply. Depends how much you forge as to how much you'll plans and how long youd have to wait. But as they say, when is the best time to plant a tree? Yesterday. Might as well start today. They wont grow any faster starting tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pnut Posted January 6, 2021 Share Posted January 6, 2021 I'd reckon using buffalo chips as fuel is about as eco friendly as you can get without making any radical design modifications. Collected and focused solar energy can be a dangerous beast to tinker with. I witnessed a large fresnel lens from a projection screen TV start quite a blaze in less than a second. Pnut Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted January 6, 2021 Share Posted January 6, 2021 As electric companies go more toward solar and wind power an induction forge may be your best bet. It also has the plus of not creating greenhouse gasses in use, (generation may do so unless they go solar/wind/wave.) Not knowing which of the over 100 countries that participate here on the World Wide Web makes it hard to say if your local electricity is eco friendly or not! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted January 6, 2021 Share Posted January 6, 2021 12 hours ago, Madeleine said: I guess I didn't think of charcoal as carbon neutral since it needs to be burned first. However, I can definitely see how propane is not "neutral" in any way. It's not truly carbon neutral, as it doesn't magically flash from tree into energy with perfect efficiency. One has to take into consideration the energy expended in harvesting wood, transporting it, and converting it into charcoal. However, it is renewable, unlike fossil fuels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted January 6, 2021 Share Posted January 6, 2021 Madeleine: Click on your header towards the upper right side of the page that opens is a button that says "edit profile." Click the button, make the changes you wish and select save. You can do a number of things including putting in a nifty keen photo as your AVATAR. Mine is me cir. 2000, the moose is eating buds from a brush pile behind the well casing. Frosty The Lucky. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madeleine Posted January 11, 2021 Share Posted January 11, 2021 On 1/6/2021 at 11:19 AM, JHCC said: It's not truly carbon neutral, as it doesn't magically flash from tree into energy with perfect efficiency. One has to take into consideration the energy expended in harvesting wood, transporting it, and converting it into charcoal. However, it is renewable, unlike fossil fuels. Ahh, yes that's the distinction I was trying to put words to. Thanks! On 1/6/2021 at 3:42 PM, Frosty said: Click on your header towards the upper right side of the page that opens is a button that says "edit profile." Thank you Frosty The Lucky!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a8ngelfir7e Posted January 17, 2021 Share Posted January 17, 2021 I am building a forge that redirects the exhaust fumes back into the forge for a second burn following the wood gas generator principal. Rocket mass heaters burn so hot that there is little smoke that comes out and the excess heat is trapped in the mass not wasting the heat. I've built one, they work. If your inner chamber is not firebrick, or well thought out, it can melt by burning just regular sticks. Working on an electrolyzer to separate hydrogen and oxygen. HHO gas burns too hot (5100f max) to do most things with as it will make the metal brittle. But in the electrolysis phase, you can have the gas come out as just pure hydrogen and pure oxygen and I am going to channel in the pure hydrogen into the forge which burns at 1000f lower than the HHO gas. The FCHEA, fuel cell & hydrogen energy association has a list of some plants that moving away from coke to hydrogen to help fight carbon emissions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flynn Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 I am fortunate enough to live in the middle of a forest, so I've considered building a charcoal forge and only using fallen wood to supply it. Or trying out different rocket stove designs to see if I can get one up to forging temps. Using fallen wood is about as carbon-neutral as I can think of, aside from a solar/wind/hydro-powered induction forge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 Remember that running exhaust fumes back through the burn increases carbon monoxide content greatly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flynn Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 Yep! This would definitely be my outdoor forge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted January 19, 2021 Share Posted January 19, 2021 Welcome aboard confusing scramble of letters guy, glad to have you. If you'll sign your posts with a name, nick, or something less clunky we won't make one up for you. Also if you put your general location in the header you'll have a chance of hooking up with folk within visiting distance. The reason using HHO or H2 for forge fuel makes brittle steel is called, "hydrogen embrittlement" and is probably why you don't see: foundries, mills, etc. using hydrogen as fuel. It's cheap enough to make if it were a suitable fuel it'd be in use. You can crack water in a heat exchanger on the exhaust circuit. It recoups waste heat and makes fuel and oxy in the PERFECT ratio, no electricity necessary. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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