Frosty Posted February 2, 2023 Share Posted February 2, 2023 Yeah well, there's one born every minute. You can find people selling poorly made "Frosty T burners" for more than $150 all over the net. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted February 3, 2023 Share Posted February 3, 2023 Well, that depends; if it works well, than they are asking every last penny for it. While not cheap, it isn't what I would call a ripoff. Yes, people can buy something just as good for less. Such is the marketplace; call it ignorance tax Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted February 3, 2023 Share Posted February 3, 2023 Poorly made burners don't work well, most were seriously oxidizing and usually had tubes 10" or longer. I'd get angry but I put the design out there so anybody could make one and the ads are testimony to how easy it is to make. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeHene Posted February 3, 2023 Author Share Posted February 3, 2023 Sorry Frosty, didn't mean to rub a sore spot with that last post. I'm happy with my little plastic blower but I sure wouldn't trust it's build quality enough to put on a burner that I was selling to someone for that kind of money. I completely understand why it irritates you to see your time and research used for the sake of stuffing someone else's pocket from poorly made versions of you work. I'm a stickler for quality too. As much as the OEM burner of my son:s little forge frustrated me, I've gotta say, the frame is thick and solid with nice welds. That's what attracted me to it in the first place. It seems so few people take pride in their work any more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted February 3, 2023 Share Posted February 3, 2023 Ahhh, you're good Lee. Mike and I just got sidetracked we do it all the time. I don't care to see my name pinned on poorly made burners but that's not going to change and it doesn't do me any real harm. I made the burner available to the public free 30 years or so ago on Theforge and Artmetal email lists. That so many people with such little understanding of how a NA burner works can make money selling them is something I take as a testament to a successful design. It's one of those times when the final product lived up to my expectations. All I wanted to do was make a reasonably effective, easy to make burner available to people with minimal shop skills and tools. It isn't a high performance burner, it wasn't supposed to be and it has it's flaws, one as you note being susceptible to breezes and back pressure. Heck, the last significant improvement I made was using a floor flange and close nipple to make aligning everything to the mixing tube. Other folk have tinkered with it and upped it's performance considerably which puts a smile on my face. I'm happy with it and the way it's going, nothing poorly built knock offs have or can do effects it nor my intent. I'm good, especially with you and your set up. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted February 3, 2023 Share Posted February 3, 2023 Having had similar experiences and thoughts about Mikey burners, I have come to the same conclusions. If their builds make an adequate flame, then good enough. However, the effects of cross breezes on "T" isn't a design flaw; its a limitation inherent in NA burners; mine too. Just as single flame retention nozzles have advantages and limitations that are different than Multi-flame nozzles, NA and fan-blown burners are different. Furthermore fan-blown and fan-induced burners are quite different. When their limitations aren't acceptable it is time to switch hitters, rather than booing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted February 5, 2023 Share Posted February 5, 2023 Oh I don't know Mike, I think any failings that devolve from using a device intended to draw vacuum for a burner is inherently a flawed design. Truth is the T is more susceptible than other jet ejector type burners. The way I build and tune them they are, I have the fuel air so closely balanced it doesn't take much to disrupt it. I could use a smaller jet at higher pressure and chokes to make it less susceptible but that feels like cheating. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted February 5, 2023 Share Posted February 5, 2023 Cheating is one of my favorite things Let's see: There's Joking... Winning... Cheating... Icecream... Cake... Its pretty high up on the list Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeHene Posted February 6, 2023 Author Share Posted February 6, 2023 Cheating is only an issue if someone is looking to compete in a fair fight. Personally, I'll take a strong victory over a fair fight any day. Guess that might explain why I've never had any interest in organized sports. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeHene Posted February 9, 2023 Author Share Posted February 9, 2023 Today I inserted a fresh firebrick in the bottom that I'd cut to match the conture of the forge. I hadn't coated it with 100HT yet. WOW! WHAT A HEATSINK!!! No wonder some folks can't manage to get their home-built forges up to temp! Small details add up quickly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeHene Posted February 9, 2023 Author Share Posted February 9, 2023 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 If you build a fixture from angle iron, it can keep your bricks stacked in place in front of--not against-- the front exhaust opening. Then you can keep your bricks an inch or more away the exhaust opening. With this little bit of distance, exhaust gases can rise up and escape from the forge, no matter how small the distance between top and bottom bricks. Thus, you can greatly decrease the size of the opening, without increasing back pressure in the forge. Once you have actual control of the exhaust opening, then it becomes time to coat the in-facing surface of your bricks with a re-emission coating, to radiate more heat back into the forge interior, greatly increasing the incandescence of internal surfaces. The higher into the incandescent range the forge surfaces get, the greater the amount of internal heat, for fuel gas expended, will get transferred to work surfaces. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeHene Posted February 10, 2023 Author Share Posted February 10, 2023 Thank you for the input. I've been planning to build a fixture out of angle similar to what you mentioned, but I was going to keep the bricks pretty close to flush with the forge. Since installing the blower I have observed no issues with back pressure. Even when testing with both ends briefly blocked, the flame doesn't even sputter. Is there more to adequate venting (beyond burner performance) that I'm not aware of? Carbon monoxide or something? I ask that respectfully. I still have a whole lot to learn. *I do plan to coat ALL new surfaces facing the forge with 100HT. That stuff is magic! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeJustice Posted February 10, 2023 Share Posted February 10, 2023 I installed a carbon monoxide/smoke detector not far from my forge before I light it up for use. Also, a fire extinguisher in between the two roll up doors of the garage. It is better to not have to charge into or through a fire to get to your extinguisher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHCC Posted February 10, 2023 Share Posted February 10, 2023 Someone recommended a fire extinguisher between each ignition source and exit point. That way, you're not forced to chose between grabbing the extinguisher and moving towards an exit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeJustice Posted February 10, 2023 Share Posted February 10, 2023 I'm not understanding you John. In my case there is only one choice. Get to the exit for the extinguisher. If the fire is going to be containable, get to it. Otherwise, you can get out. Of course, this is for my setup, and I am only having the one extinguisher. More could be better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeHene Posted February 11, 2023 Author Share Posted February 11, 2023 Of course I have a fire extinguisher close by. It's mounted right beside the door, 5 feet from the forge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeHene Posted February 19, 2023 Author Share Posted February 19, 2023 Quick update, I got a bench top stand welded together for the forge. It allows an air gap between hot surfaces and the bench and it also holds firebricks in place for the doors. Simple and 100% adjustable / removable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeHene Posted March 4, 2023 Author Share Posted March 4, 2023 Today I finally got around to adding a diffuser. Hoping it will add stability and help hold the flame at lower temps. It sure required me to open up the regulator a little more! Im not really sure if I like the flame output better or not. The flame is a little more sensitive to the mixture once up to temp and it certainly concentrates heat in the middle. Guess it'll take some use to decide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted March 4, 2023 Share Posted March 4, 2023 Well, as the acknowledged picky of the group: I like it a lot. But...probably you'll find that more is better, as the smaller the flames the shorter they'll get; this leave more distance between them an your work, for all combustion to complete. Remember, it isn't just unburned fuel that makes trouble. Any super heated oxygen left over will instantly form scale ou your work pieces. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeHene Posted March 4, 2023 Author Share Posted March 4, 2023 Thank you Mikey, that means a lot! After some use, I think I'm on the right track. It's not quite as forgiving with settings on the high end, but it now it's able to be throttled way down and still run reliably without the flame traveling up into the burner tube. (That black soot is just from momentary flames rolling out the front during transition between low and high.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted March 5, 2023 Share Posted March 5, 2023 Oh, yeah! Those shorter flames look very likely I also note that they are a darker blue, which indicates leaner; but not too lean. You can always quickly heat up your forge with longer flames, and then cut them back, before inserting work pieces. After seeing this photo, I advise moving on with finishing up little forge details, rather than playing with the burner any more. And I never advise stopping short of the goal. Congratulations on winning a Blue ribbon for burner design BTW, that's a nice smooth forge wall. Any suggestions for others? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeeHene Posted March 5, 2023 Author Share Posted March 5, 2023 I'd be happy to share! For the forge walls I used Hellcoat 3000 that came with it to cover the fiberglass blanket. (I don't think I'd reccomend the Hellcoat. I'm still haunted by some bad cracks that started in it.) A couple weeks later I went back over it with 100HT, which is GREAT stuff. For both, I mixed them about as thick as a milkshake. I tried to apply an even coat and followed over it with a thick paint stick as a float to smooth it out. To prevent getting any on the outside frame, I used blue painters tape. Gotta take that off immediately afterward though. If you wait until the coating sets up, removal will result in some cracks and/or voids. Always leave a little bit extra. There will be spots you might want to go back over or repairs to make in the future. I hope this helps someone. It can be a little intimidating at first if you care about doing a nice job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goods Posted March 5, 2023 Share Posted March 5, 2023 Leehehe, how did you setup your diffuser? Looks like 1/4” pipe hot fit into 3/4”, but not really sure. What’s the lengths of everything? Inquiring minds want to know? This type of burner could really improve the hot spots in my two burner hell’s forge. It need needs some work, and I rarely use it. But if the hot spots were reduced and with relining, that would probably change… Keep it fun, David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted March 5, 2023 Share Posted March 5, 2023 Thanks Lee. Inquiring minds certainly do want to know; especially how to copy your flame retention nozzle. You may have started a new thing on the forum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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