Defining a Treadle Hammer

[Arkans]

I guess this is as good a place for my first post.  I am new to blacksmithing, still building my first forge. (solid fuel out of an old 20 gallon air tank) Any ways I watch a lot videos and have begun laying out my my forging area and seen a few treadle hammer designs on you tube.  Since I know buying a power hammer of any kind is out of my foreseeable financial future, I was thinking on building a treadle hammer, basic design, with a 8x8 post set in the ground with the hammers pivot mounted on this post, using garage door springs to hold up the hammer.  Anvil base under the hammer would be set up with a base plate with a hardy hole in the center. Figure to make the tools I would need to fit the hardy hole for various needs weather is is flat surface, or what ever else I would need.  Just a thought for a poor man's replacement for a power hammer and since getting help will not be an option, having this set up would be helpful when an extra hand is needed. 

 

 So here is the question for you older hands at the forge,  would a heavier hammer be useful?  Instead of an 8lb sledge, go with a massive 16lb, or make it where I can change the hammer from lighter to heavier as needed?

 

 

 

[George N. M.]

Welcome aboard from 7500' in SE Wyoming.  Glad to have you.

I think you are getting quite a bit ahead of yourself if you are just starting our and are contemplating building a treadle hammer.  That is like someone who just got their divinr learner's permit looking at a high powered sports car.  Maybe it isn't a Formula 1 racer but it is not for the beginner.  A treadle hammer is more an intermediate skill level tool.

You need to develop basic skills and knowledge of how metal moves, how it feels, hammer control, where to place your blows, etc., etc. first.  This is best done with a hand held hammer.  A treadle hammer just hits too hard for any subtlety when you are learning.  Yes, you can just tap with it but you need a fair amount of practice with a hand hammer before you can accurately judge when to tap and when to smack.

I suggest that you start out small and easy and develop basic skills before you decide that a treadle or power hammer would make your life easier.  I would say that, on average, if you stay with the craft, you are looking at a year or two out before you really will need one.

BTW, I have an inline type treadle hammer and it is one more tool in my shop.  I use my hand hammers much more than the treadle hammer but when I need it I'm glad I have it.  The big advantage is that it consistently hits in the same place every time and can hit harder than I can by hand.  But I've been doing this since 1978.

"By hammer and hand all arts do stand."

[Arkans]

Oh I am not going out and building a Treadle hammer right out the gate.  On the things to build, buy, beg and barrow list, that's at the bottom...

I have seen several designs on YouTube though and my question was more of a mental thought process.  I see something and think how to apply the concept.  
 

starting out I plan on making tools.  Tongs, chisels, punches, swedge blocks, hardie's, and who knows what else.  Then I want to learn to layer and weld.  Basically I want to work on my skills first.  I know I have a lot to learn, but don't be surprised if I drop ideas I have on here.  I have a huge collection of pencils and draw pads, so if an idea from something I have seen drops in my head, it can find it's way on paper for a later date or be filed away never to see daylight again.   

[Charles R. Stevens]

Treadle hammers can be as simple or as complicated as you wish. In line hammers are a thing to behold hut if you look at the Blacksmith designs from a hundred years back you will find some are simply a sledge hammer hinged to a post and suspended buy some kind of spring (A wooden stave works) or a heavy tamping bar with a pair of swing arms not unlike a cars suspension. All sharing a chain or other linkage to a foot pad to provide the wamp.

mine is of the 14# sledge hinged to a post brand. . 
 

if your looking at YouTube I would look at this for simple. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nmru3hXj47U

[Shainarue]

Arkans, the one you described is exactly the one I have in my "future to-do" book as well! Would have come in handy when I was trying to forge down that 1.5" piece into a hot cut. That was super difficult to move by hand and I don't have an accomplice at the ready.

Charles, the one Arkans is describing is very similar to the one in the video you posted. That video is actually where I grabbed the screenshot of the printout I have in my book!

The biggest difference is that his version would be made of wood. Here's the video I had bookmarked with the wood version:

 

I've also added a few notes based on comments I came across here and there:

• Add a shield around the spring in case it breaks - so it doesn't go flying in my direction if it should happen.
• Add an optional safety stop to use when chiseling - so if it should happen to drop unexpectedly, it won't fall far enough to hit my hand.
• Make various attachment holes where the chain attaches to the hammer arm - so it can be adjusted for taller/shorter strikes

[Frosty]

So we meet again Arkans! A treadle hammer isn't really for general forging, sure you can hit much harder with a leg than an arm but not as fast and lifting your leg for every blow takes a LOT more energy. They really shine for punching, sitting, stamping, etc. Things where you need a precise hard blow. General heavy forging is okay once in a while, say Shaina's current hardy project, a spring fuller and she'd be done and bragging. 

Speaking of which. Shaina put the treadle pivot near the bottom of the back post, NOT the top! The way it is in the sketch means you'll have to lift your leg higher and push towards the hammer, this will reduce your strength of blow and be much  more tiring.

With the center of the treadle's arc level with your comfortable leg lift height you can stomp straight down. For height think of a stair riser and what would be comfortable for you to stand on a tread and lift your foot up onto, over and over, just up and down. The treadle doesn't have to travel far, the closer you attach the connecting chain to the pivots (treadle and hammer arms) the greater the movement and faster the blow for the shorter harder stomp length. This is exactly like pry bars or the gears in a transmission, the lower the gear the easier the engine works but slower the car. A treadle hammer is a compound lever machine, if you hook the linkage like in your sketch you have to move the treadle farther for a slower blow but it'll be an easy if awkward push. Make sense?

These things are easy to model with an erector set or popsicle sticks and pins. It is well worth modeling BEFORE you build.

Frosty The Lucky.

 

[Charles R. Stevens]

They are a fair replacement for an apprentice striking top tools. Eats less any way. 
top tools are hard to wield with only two hands. For those who have 3 or mor not an issue. 

[JHCC]

Here's a walkaround video I shot of my own treadle hammer just after I completed it.

I've since added another thirty pounds or so of lead to the head, a disengaging linkage to the chain between the treadle and the hammer (so that I can drop the treadle down when it's not in use), a whole lot of additional bracing at both ends of the column, and a small tire on the back of the column to act as a shock absorber when the hammer reaches the top of its stroke. I use this thing a LOT with various top tools; it's great for punching, chiseling, and heavy fullering. (I've even used it to hammer on the back end of a pair of anvil shears!) While I'd love to have a power hammer, this basically takes the place of a striker -- a really, really strong striker who knows what I want without having to be told.

[Arkans]

Shania, that is the exact video I got my idea from!  I made a few modifications, based the movement I seen from his as he used it.  And I plan on using concrete to set mine in place if I ever build it.  I am also thinking on modifying the hammer head as well to allow for different tooling shapes of the hammering head... just do not have that one figured out yet.

Frosty I am starting to think your following me lol...

[anvil]

I bought my treadle hammer from Clay Spencer and his plans are still available. It's a 25# hammer as is my lil giant. They are set up spacewise to be used together along with my anvil. Think of the treadle as a single blow detail tool, the lil giant as my hogger tool and all work comes back to my anvil and hammer as a finishing tool. Mosty times all three tools are used in the same heat. 

 

[Frosty]

14 hours ago, Arkans said:

Frosty I am starting to think your following me lol...

 

[ThomasPowers]

Lets see; "financials"   I once bought a 25# LG in Shawnee OK for US$75, a 50# hammer from an old oilfield welder for US$250  and of course the hoard in NM where my 25# LG was free; how much less than free do you need?

[jason0012]

As has been already said, a treadle hammer is not a good substitute for a power hammer. It is still a very usefull tool and , if nothing else you can get a good controlled hit that is way more than you would want to swing by hand. For the design you drew, get the absolute heaviest sledge you can find. You can stomp a 20# or better hammer, and balancing it with springs can take a lot of the effort away from the user. A big slam from a heavy hammer can be used to draw stock, it’s just slow. Where a treadle hammer is really awesome is for punching and chiseling. I built one such as you drew many years back, and welded junk to the hammer until it was around 40#, and welded a plate to the face to which I bolted dies. It was abandoned as soon as I had a 25# little giant in the shop, but back in the beginning I didn’t even have electric.

[TWISTEDWILLOW]

21 hours ago, ThomasPowers said:

Lets see; "financials"   I once bought a 25# LG in Shawnee OK for US$75, a 50# hammer from an old oilfield welder for US$250

So Your the reason I can’t never find one here!!!! You done bought em all! Lol