Cable forging

[Daswulf]

I use one thumb typing on my phone anymore. Computer desk is cluttered with kids toys and only have been using that for I Car classes for work and doing my taxes lol. 

[Frosty]

15 hours ago, Fontneaux said:

Quote from post As for FiF; would you go to a surgeon who learned surgery from watching medical shows on commercial TV?

Thomas is fond of saying that or a version not I.

Frosty The Lucky.

[Daswulf]

Over someone watching horror movies or cartoons? Yes. Lol. 

[Frosty]

I can imagine it now. Tom and Jerry learn surgery watching Youtube. Have you ever seen the old Heckle and Jeckle cartoons? Cuts often removed a limb with blood and a nice white circle bone. 

I watched them all the time and I turned out okay. . . Okay. . . . Okay.

Frosty The Lucky.

[swedefiddle]

Hoakey Doaky, Pardner.

Hang onto this while I light it, the BANG won't be too much!!!!  I forgot, the bang is the little flag that comes out of the barrel of the gun, right?

Enjoy the Daayy, Neil

 

[Scott NC]

5 hours ago, Frosty said:

watched them all the time and I turned out okay.

  Me too.  "The Inspector" was also quite good. 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Inspector

[ThomasPowers]

Frosty; I think that's the first time I used Surgery/YouTube.   I am much more on the Formula 1 racing/learning to drive...

[Frosty]

Yeah, I just knew it wasn't something I said and thought it sounded like something you would.

Frosty The Lucky.

[Pigsticker]

This is my first question. I've read scores of your posts and now I need help w making cable billets and I'm not very Internet savvy. I have about 8 specific questions. How should I list or present the questions to get the most feedback? I know not to hijack others posts... Questions include; if a piece of wire stands off the cable, should I tap it in if metals cold (red) or should I wait til after I pull it from forge next yellow? I can just print them all but I don't want to rock boats. Thanks all

[Glenn]

List your questions in detail and we will try to give you an answer.

[Pigsticker]

Thank you.

 

[George N. M.]

Pigsticker, welcome aboard from 7500' in SE Wyoming. Glad to have you.

As Glenn says, just list your questions and someone will probably be able to answer some or all of them.  Also, some information about your shop, tools , and level of experise/experience may help, e.g. are you doing the forge welding of the cable by hand, with a power hammer, or with a press.  Answers may vary depending on your tools and your experience.

"By hammer and hand all arts do stand."

[Pigsticker]

All for cable.

1 why does cable come loose after initial twisting weld. It starts to unravel.

2 is there a way to know when to cut off pieces instead of trying to reweld it w gentle tap?

3 How many taps to weld twisted cable enough to save edges.

4 is there a way to cut cable that "seals" the wires at the end. Like back of a hammer. 

5 can you hammer the end of a cable to weld it when it's yellow.

6 do you cut loose ends immediately or...

7it looks like shape of cable keeps reappearing in the forge after twisting.

8 any good hammering tips like spin ing in direction of curves.

9 I get a lot of scale on my rr no track anvil. How do I avoid this or is it ok the hit me cable into it. I've got about three more I can't read in dark room thanks all for reading and helping. Tx George

I also have 0 real experience, a one burner forge, several hammers, no torches or migs or tigs. I just tried hose clamps to keep a cable end together. It was a sturdier hold than wire rap but didn't last quite as long. I'm getting cable to tink right on twisting alone, but then it unwinds. And I've hammered plenty after the twist. Best on I have is fast tapping with 1lb hammer.  I'm a bigger boy so most of the time I try too hard.

Tx

[Pigsticker]

And thanks Glenn for your prompt reply

 

Last thing is everything is hand hammered and the only temp gauge I have is a point and shoot plastic one from Amazon. 

[George N. M.]

I'm going to make the general suggestion that you are in over your head.  Cable welding and forge welding in general is a semi-advanced skill.  Cable welding is  tougher because it involves lots of small pieces, all of which want to go in their own direction.  It is particularly tough if you cannot weld the ends to secure all the strands.  It also sounds like you may be trying to weld at too cool a tenperature.  Welding heat is usually bright yellow to white.  It is just below where the metal starts to spark.  You may be trying to drive a Formula I car at the Indianapolis 500 while you still only have your learner's permit.

I have found that forge welding works better in a solid fuel forge rather than a gasser but I am working at a mile and a half above sea level and my propane forge may not be getting quite hot enough.

Also, make sure that your cable is NOT galvanized.  If it is you are putting yourself at risk of heavy metal poisoning by heating galvanized metal to welding tempoerature.  This is a VERY BAD thing.

I suggest that you practice forge welding other things and different types of metal before you step up to cable.  This will give you a higher success rate and be much less frustrating.

Finally, look up your local ABANA affiliate and join.  You can get better instuction and help in person than just watching videos.  We have a number of IFI members in NC who may be able to help you.

"By hammer and hand alla rts do stand."

[ThomasPowers]

This will be particularly hard since you are blind; "the only temp gauge I have is a point and shoot plastic one from Amazon".  I've been using my eyes as a temp gauge for the last 40+ years and have never owned an optical pyrometer or thermocouple myself.  Forge welding is one of those skills that are MUCH easier learned by working with someone who knows how to do it and can coach you in it.  I still remember my first instructor yelling at me "Don't look at it *hit* *it*!"  (I was looking at it to learn the correct temperature color.)

Have you read the chapter in "The Pattern -Welded Blade" by Jim Hrisoulas on welded cable? You should be able to ILL it from a local public library.

I personally like to have the ends of the cable welded over to stabilize it, welders can be found used quite cheaply; or you can grow a friendship with someone with a welder.  (My ancient Lincoln Tombstone welder ran me US$40 about 25 years ago; I expect it will get to under US$1 per year...)

Welding in a V swage helps keep the wires from "trying to escape".  Are you doing that?

[George N. M.]

PS If you don't have access to welding equipment or the skill set to use it you might want to just take some sections of cable down to the local welding shop and pay them to weld up the ends. EZ PZ.

GNM

[Latticino]

My process with cable is as follows:

1. Select the right cable stock (3/4-1 1/2" overall diameter for me) elevator or crane cable seem to work well.  Not all cable is created equal.  In addition to avoiding galvanized, avoid cable with a non-metal core.
2. Soak greasy cable in kerosene overnight.  Note: lots of folks prefer to burn off the oil and grease, but I feel it leaves behind contaminants.
3. MIG weld ends securely.  SS hose clamps might do in a pinch, but will make the next task harder.
4. Heat only the end 2" and forge weld about an inch of that.  Liberal use of flux helps with forging cable, so a coal forge is preferable as it is less likely to get damaged.  You also can better concentrate a hot flame.
5. Repeat on the opposite side of the cable.
6. Can untwist a bit and tap stock and brush with wire brush to remove any debris, but not always needed.
7. Take a long heat and twist tightly.  Repeat till twist is almost circumferential, heating to hotter heat each time and brushing and fluxing between heats.  Last twist should be as close as possible to welding temperature and should start to weld the billet.
8. Heat about a 4" section to welding heat and lightly hammer into a v or half circle bottom swage.  This helps compress the cable better.  Rotate the cable to twist it tighter while you are hammering.
9. Once the cable feels solid repeat a welding pass with heavier blows.  Flux regularly.
10. Move heat down the billet and continue the weld until complete.

[Gazz]

I have had good success hand hammering cable into solid and have some things for you to consider.

How clean is your cable?  Does it have a plastic component twisted into it?  If it does you need to remove all of it.

Welded ends are best but I think wrapping the ends tightly with wire would work.  (Set/weld the ends first)

Warm the piece first enough to get the flux to stick - don't get it red, just hot enough so the flux liquifies.  Also what are you using for flux?

I have used a "touch stick" when pattern welding, a 1/4" steel rod with a taper forged or ground into the end, that can be inserted into the forge to touch your work piece.  What I am looking for here is to determine if the work piece is hot enough to weld.  The touch stick should stick or weld to the work piece if it is hot enough.  Once the touch stick does stick, let your work piece soak a bit longer to be sure it is at a welding temperature at its core.

Set the welds at the end with light hammer blows.  Do one end then  add flux and back into the forge to get it hot again for the other end.

Reapply flux every time the piece comes out of the forge - to be clear, remove the piece, hammer, then flux and then back into the forge.

Once both ends are welded, flux it and get it up to welding heat again and twist it tightly in your vise and with a twisting wrench and then flux and back into the forge.

Once at welding temp again, remove and with light hammer blows, set the welds over the entire piece.

I wonder if your stray wires are getting burned through and pulling away from the bundle.  You may need to put a baffle to block the blast from the burner impinging directly on your work piece.  The direct flame will burn through individual wires before the rest of the piece is hot.

These are things that have worked for me and others may have different advice

Don't be shy, lets see some pictures.

[Purple Bullet]

All the above is good advice. I would especially consider the coal forge. No one answered about cutting cable, so let me tackle that. I generally use baling wire wrap above and below the cut. Place a slight tension on the cable to bend it down and open the cut as you go and use a cutoff wheel in a small grinder to cut through. Don't just push it through, but work the blade back and forth to keep the wheel from grabbing as you work through the cable. Back when I worked offshore we would sit a rig axe on the deck, blade up, lay the cable across it, and hit it with a hammer. That didn't always result in a clean cut. I wouldn't use my best hammer either.

I use new cable. I've tried soaking in diesel, cleaning with brake cleaner or acetone and just sticking it in the fire to burn out the grease. They all work as long as you have the heat and flux well. I use 20 Mule Team straight out of the box. Old, rusty cable might require more cleaning. 

The other dang-near necessity is the welder. One of those flux-core 110v wire welders would do. Its easier to learn to weld with one of those than it is to forge weld.  Weld up one end and weld a rod "handle" to the other end. As mentioned above, you may be burning through wires. Avoid this by turning frequently. With a one burner gas forge block up almost all the openings to keep the heat in and rotate continually. Think "hot dogs on the roller grills at the convenience store." Even in my coal forge I rotate the cable a lot. 

[Pigsticker]

Tx for responses. I'm a poor typist and natural xxxxxxx so my writings tough.

George,

1. Seems like deep water is where the funs at but yes, it's deep.

2 help from the willing is tough to do. No longer part of driving Americans.

3(not arguing) everything I've read says go at the ol low. After 15 minutes it seems to stay at yellow.

4)Temp gun is because of of full beach sun competing in the daytime. It's yellow is 2020-2150.

5) sweet. I'm right on one thing. No galvanized but thanks for heads up.

6) cable has the least welding with guns than anything else I know of to get pretty metal. Ex. Layer, canister, San Mai. This is all pre gun welder stuff so its been done before. Thought about prebolting slabs together with 1/4"  stainless bolts and then cut them off.

7)there is a welding shop about 10 miles out but the phone # is elusive and that's a long way to just check. There is always workmen around for areas rentals. Does any workmen show up w a welder on job sites? I know plumbers use little handheld propane torches

8

Thomas 

7)My only option for instruction is Internet based as I'm sedentary. Unless there's free people to teach me here, it's on me.

8) I'm a very poor reader now too and can't really use non picture books. I did just get a book on geometry but I'm not sure why. It was highly rated though

7) no swage v. Just a rr track 18".

8)a welder would just be more be s**t I don't know how to use and don't have anybody here to teach me. I know it's the same, but a welder is scarier that forge w tank 3 feet away. That's how long hose is

Thanks guys 

Gott pics of current results but not sure if they help or where to post

[Pigsticker]

My first clip point dagger with fuller

sheepsfoot karambit

Looks welded

womens rainy day 'chete

[anvil]

you are not hot enough. get it to a welding heat. you are not even close.

forging with no experience, especially forgewelding outside, adds immensely to the difficulty.

However, if you have enough time,patience and cable,to gain the needed experience, you will succeed. All difficulty is overcome by patience and invested time.

good luck and have fun.

[Pigsticker]

Latticino. Thanks, what temp should I start twisting at. I've liberally fluxed but it tends to look glassy and when it is hit. Big chunks that don't scrape off drop on face of anvil that I'm pounding metal on. Where's it go?

Gazz, thanks. I soak in kerosene at least 36 hrs and it's "new" I use the cow borax that's plain. I use this xxxx temp gun and it's another book of mysteries but I think my pics show it welded. I like half bowl idea. Can I hit it hard on or taps? I can hammer to pop off slag( I think) . I've been worried to look at cable if it's not yellow. By saying baffle, is that like a 2" pipe or 2x2?  I like you h stick idea. Where does groove or relief go? To hold up bar or a flat face to touch with. Tx again

Purple

All good stuff. Tx. What does burned cable look like versus good. There are lots of pieces that could be doing that in on my cables but I usually see them ahead of time but I don't know when it's time to cut off or just go gentler. My bm hammers have a wedge on back that could go through hot cable it hit with another hammer if that would fuse ends. Currently I cut gently w an angle grinder. My next cable showing up is all 1 1/4" .

Thanks for all yals help

 

And greetings from topsail beach. 21' elevation. 47.5 feet high in living room

Tx anvil. Think I e been told it's impossible to burn cable in a single burner propane forge so more time is better? What # temp for cable if you knowtc

 

Edited September 29, 2022 by Mod30
Language

[ThomasPowers]

It's possible to melt cable in a single burner propane forge depending on the forge and the burner.  If it's running lean you can scale the workpiece up enough it WON'T WELD!

If you can't get to a ABANA Affiliate meeting---have you asked them about having a meeting at your place?