Cable forging

[Fontneaux]

I was thinking of cutting a slightly wide strip of metal and tightly wrapping it around cutting area of the cable and welding it before cutting it? I worked construction for 15 yrs and any time we cut rope or cable we would wrap the cutting spot with Duct tape before we cut it to prevent it from fraying or unraveling. It stands to reason if you use usable steel to clamp around the cable end the unraveling will not happen and the steel band can be used to grip in vice and pipe wrench to open and close the fibers to allow the burning out of trash between strands. Also seems to be easier to control pressure for fusion of strands during forging if a cap if welded over end of the end of the cable by welding the strands solid. If any have better capping idea please discuss any suggestions

[Frosty]

I used to wrap it with wire, two pieces one on each side of the cut. This is called "Whipping" and is used to prevent rope unraveling when cut. If you're going to use a saw or cutoff disk pipe two clamps work nicely.

If you weld, arc or gas, the cut ends it won't unravel and can be held tightly in a vise. 

Frosty The Lucky.

[swedefiddle]

Good Morning Font,

If you are talking about Forge-welding wire rope, weld the ends first. You have to rotate the wire rope the direction of the lay, so the hammer blows are tightening up the wrap. Or if you want to cheat, you can mig weld the ends so the strands don't unwind. You still have to Forge-weld the ends first, after tacking the ends together. Play with a piece of Manila/Sisal rope to understand how the wire rope will react. If you turn the incorrect way, it will unravel.

If you are making a Knife, Forge-weld both ends, then Forge-weld the blade area. After the welding is done, heat up the handle area and unwind it to create the size of the handle that you would like. Don't get the handle too hot, just hot enough to move and stay where you want it.

Enjoy the Journey

Neil

 

[Fontneaux]

19 hours ago, Frosty said:

I used to wrap it with wire, two pieces one on each side of the cut. This is called "Whipping"

Yes I was taught to whip ropes with wax string as a child but cable is way tougher not much wire is forgiving enough to whip cable and still be used in the forge mixture so I thought a strip of good metal would work better. Mostly coper or stainless tie wire would be easily used but not good to mix or copper would not hold up to temp. needed to forge with. I'm glad that someone did think of something like whipping the ends though. Thanks for input. Maybe wire is just to small to hold up to forging, but I've never tried before to forge so IDK very much about it. If I ever get the chance maybe I can try which I prefer. I hope some day to get the chance to try several of my ideas and any experienced people suggest besides you. Thanks for your input.

Edited March 22, 2022 by Mod30
Trim quote.

[Fontneaux]

I have been watching Forged in Fire and most have issues with welding the ends either during welding or it breaking apart while twisting the cable or during heating. Why is that? Bad weld or what should be done to help stop that? It happens to quite a few people so since IDK much about it I'd like to know how to prevent it if I get the chance. I'd like to learn from experienced people so I don't get fed up and quit something I might really have a passion for and maybe could be good at. Like they say Knowledge is Power. I took a welding test and the testing place owner was a QC for 40 years at the time and he said my weld cap was the nicest looking weld he has ever seen and there was no way it could fail the bend test. But when he bent the strip it snapped because I burned to cold and didn't penetrate through to blend the root. So I guess I still need to learn more about welding LoL. Thanks very much about the info on forging cable. I do have very extensive knowledge of rope though. I spent my childhood camping using and making rope either from Indian fiber plant and or binder twine 2 tin cans and 2 sticks. Thers not much I can't do with rope as far as whipping lashing and knot tying. I learned how to build many survival structures even how to build platforms in several feet deep of water in marshes and flooded areas that fires can be built on in my shelter. T be honest I'm a 3 palm eaglescout that went the extra mile to be able to wear all 3 palms at same time if that means anything to you about my knowledge of rope and knots. I do very much appreciate you sharing your knowledge. Every extra info helps. Thanks very much.

Edited March 22, 2022 by Mod30
Excessive quoting

[Daswulf]

The cable I used I was able to cut with a cutoff wheel then just welded all the strands on the end without issue. Maybe not all cable will act the same. Frostys suggestion of whipping it with wire before cutting is a good one if you are concerned. The wire can be removed after welding the ends or will just burn off or consolidate in the forge welding heats. 

[JHCC]

Nothing to add to what's been posted already (except to reflect that one of these days, I really do have to get around to welding up the piece of cable Dawulf gave me five years ago), but nonetheless, Welcome to IFI!

[Frosty]

The whipping doesn't need to stay on once it's been cut and the ends welded. Plain iron wire works best, rebar tie wire is perfect. Cut the wire rope longer than you think you'll need for the project so you can trim unsightly crud from the initial steps. 

Not to get semantic nor pedantic but "cable" is a size description say tugboat, tow cable which is most often synthetic fiber.

The term wire rope is made up of twisted yarns which are made from twisted threads. You spin the yarns left handed and ply them into rope right handed, the counter turns work together to keep it all together and tight.

Counter rotating rope has a core rope twisted counter to the outer rope.  We used counter rotating wire rope exclusively on the drill rig or it would unscrew the pull pins or drill rod. 

Yeah, forged in fire is "reality" TV not good instructional programming. I've thought contestants were picked for drama rather than a good contest for a long time. Notice they always have at least one ringer, someone who actually knows how to forge a knife?

Here's another thought, how about doing a rope splice to keep the strands in place while you weld your billet? Might make an interesting pattern too. 

Unless you have cable with a stress band in it there isn't any need to open and clean it, oil and grease make a fine flux and is completely burned out before it reaches welding temp. It's not like you plan on opening the yarns to clean between the strands are you? You can't really clean all the crud out of used cable so . . . 

I back spliced a LOT of 1" manila around a thimble on the drill rope used to drive the sampler with a safety hammer and cathead. It worked so well I got a better marlin spike and started back splicing thimbles in the wire rope we used on the hoisting winches. Oddly enough back splicing the counter rotating wire rope was easier, you can work around the core rope. 

I never made Eagle but I've always loved rope and knots. Can you tie a bowline one handed? Dad could tie one in a rope he was hanging from, I never got that one.

Frosty The Lucky.

[ThomasPowers]

In my mountaineering class in college we were not allowed out of the classroom till we could tie a bowline one handed, with our off hand, behind our backs!   It was the "rescue knot" and so if you got in trouble on the rockface they wanted to bed able to drop a rope to you and have you do a proper bowline.    I probably should practice that again to show the grandkids---been a few years since college in the mid 1970's...

In my experience; most pattern welded billets do best if the ends are trimmed off before using for a blade.   

As for FiF; would you go to a surgeon who learned surgery from watching medical shows on commercial TV?

Arc welding the ends is what all the folks I know doing cable do. (BTW been forge welding over 35 years now and so know a few folks!)

[Anachronist58]

Nice, Frosty. I use iron tie wire as you have described.  Works quite well. I just checked, and I was able to one hand a bowline on the bight (keep a length of rope next to my recliner, because a member here likes to teach me knots over the phone).  Half the time in the field I can not do it to save my face...

Have yet to forge weld any wire rope.

Robert Taylor

Edit:  been a few years, Thomas?

Edited March 21, 2022 by Anachronist58
chime in

[Daswulf]

Time flies John. Don't forget to weld a handle onto the end to make it easier to deal with. Correct size tongs work, but in the initial welding phases it just seems so much easier with the handle welded on. 

[ThomasPowers]

Took the mountaineering class around 1976?  Skills atrophy without use.  Had my first forge welding class in 1984 but have been keeping up with that one!

[Fontneaux]

i was 4 then so probably not lol

 

[Fontneaux]

yes I to learned how to what we called 1 handed sling tying a bowline and how to tie 10 plus knots at same time. its basically afixing half hitches 1 in front then 1 behind repeating over and over then run end through hole in the hitches then pull it completely through till knots are taught. I learned to back splice eye splice. Oh to those that generally splice rope try back splicing or eye splicing it strengthens your rope to the max. when learning tape the ends of the strands and dye each a different color. It will speed up visual inspection way faster. best 2 unwrap twice as much as needed for use before you dye the strands then rewrap half way up tie with wax string the start your back splice. also if you want an eye splice the best of the 2 is the one that requires you to unwrap 1 of the strands way more and bend the other 2 strands over to make loop while still twisted together then rewrap the extra strand back into the other 2 strands but from end of the 2 twisted strands back down to the point where the strands were originally unwrapped. its way stronger more than multiplying strength of your rope 10 fold. I was majorly into outdoor activity. I really like the loop finger roll style of tying a fisherman's knot. My mom taught me how to do it, she was seamstress of sorts since she grew up in the 30s with no electricity and over a 2 hr drive to nearest town in todays times. So she hade to learn to make closes to work in on the farm out of any material they could spare or find. If you loop the string 1-2 times around your index finger kind of sizeable then hold it between fingers with thumb then roll the string allowing the string to completely roll around over each other then take end and run it thr5ough loop or loops wrapping around the loops going back through the loops and then pull till knot is tight. soaking the string with saliva works great to lubricate the string to allow easier tying of the knot. If string isn't moistened it sometimes ties in multiple bird nest effects because some times friction is your enemy. To make it a fisherman's knot just run the string through eye of the hook best to do it twice to allow better control of your bate if into intricate techniques when top water fishing  if using popper top lures when fly fishing doubling your loops will allow you a way better control over your presentation oy your bate and way better sound control from poppers. some like to use the little clips you can tie on the end of your tippet but it causes your bate to be limited to a more hinged looking action than desired also the 15 lb tippets are stronger than those clips. my nephew had a camp on Bundix Lake and his dock had a light on the end of it that would attract literally billions of mayflies during the Mayfly season and the fish would school in a feeding frenzy from dusk to dawn and maybe an hour after light. The mayflies would land on the water and it would be in clumps of Mayflies as if a fire ant mound was dropped or submerged in a foot of water. All night it sounded like the water was boiling because of all the feeding going on. I was working as a boilermaker on the nightshift at Boise Cascade for a shutdown. but when I got off work I would go on the dock with my flyrod using a chartreuse spider with the white rubber band legs and catch a fish with every cast. But the 3rd cast i decided to toss in in some sticks and had a hit almost Immediately. i could tell it was huge because the strike area on top of water was the largest I ever seen in the twenty something years of my top water fishing life, so I decided to take it easy reeling it in since the Tencel strength of my tippet had been strained over the last 3 days of major fish catches. I was on the dock raised about 3.5 feet above the water I finally got it to the dock and it was the biggest Large Mouth Bass I ever even heard of. I didn't want to chance loosing it and no dipnet in site I got on my stomach and reached down and grabbed the bass by the mouth inserting my whole hand all the way to the edge of its bottom jaw running my fingers into the gill area and was unable to bend my arm enough to lift it completely out of the water so I tried to get a net from the boathouse but couldn't risk going very far because worrier of hook getting loosened if i got slack in the line so I grabbed the string and started lifting it out of water and after I gout about 3/4 of his body out of the water the clip straightened out and he swam off with my bait. To give you an idea of the size of this Bass The size of my hands were very big. I was wearing a size 13 ring because after a few years of working construction I had to resize my rings in high school from 11 1/2 to size 13 and i had to wear extra large work gloves at work and those were tight. But to get back to the Bass My hand was butted against the outer edge of it's mouth and it didn't even come close to having the other side of my hand to reaching the center of its mouth. I'm willing to bet that a gallon ice cream bucket could fit in its mouth with no problem. So after that you can imagine why I prefer to tie baits and hooks to the string directly without clips or swivel clips. Swivels without clips are great for attaching leaders to string especially great if you enjoy gar fishing with clear tiny torpedoes and attach the hooks with steel leader by using the crafting method by affixing the leader to all the hooks and through the eye of the bait and attaching the leader to a light weight heavy duty swivel so that if the gar is large enough to break usually shattering the bait will allow you to still set the hooks and catch the gar even though your bait was destroyed. I'm sorry for rambling like this but I got neuropathy and my pain meds just kicked in because I combined them with the Norco 10s My dentist gave me and pain meds and THC give me energy and make me very talkative. There I go again lol I enjoyed your take on my question and sorry I chewed your ear off at least I didn't chew your *** off lol.

Edited March 22, 2022 by Mod30
Excessive quoting

[Frosty]

Do you have a name, nickname, handle, etc. we may address you by, your login is hard for my dented brain to remember. No need to apologize to ME for being long rambles, it's one of my trademarks. 

I'm not familiar with the fishing knots you describe, Dad and I used a "Blood knot, similar to a hangman's noose. We used swivels and clip swivels unless we were fly fishing. 

You don't like swivels eh? I guess that makes for better fishing . . . stories eh?

I have a couple few of those. I almost got jerked out of the boat a couple seconds after setting the hook off the coast of S. California  channel islands. We'd get the occasional giant grouper but mostly fished for albacore tuna. It hit so hard and fast the reel hardly got a chance to sing before the leader let go. It was bitten off. Our deep see rigs ran 125lb woven Dacron and 3' steel leader. Whatever it was wasn't what I'd set the hook in, that was big but not THAT big. I figure a shark hunting the school. No telling though.

I loved deep sea fishing, you never knew what you were going to maybe land. Good times. 

Frosty The Lucky.

[Fontneaux]

Well, I like swivels just not the ones with clips on them. swivels are great for strong connections with the ability to change leaders and weighted lunker lines to drag or sit on the bottom and attaching a second line with a little buoyancy so it will avoid things on the bottom of lakes and rocky river bottoms with large rocks or any grassy bottom areas like marshes and swamps to keep the bait slightly above the obstruction, so it has added visibility to the bait usually shrimp worms or fun plastic lures like rubber shad or plastic worm. If using a bullet weight, allows great action abilities from buoyant plastic worms and shad it's great if you put a buoyant rattle tube for plastic worms and shad. If you drop the tip of the longest and strongest worm rod "I prefer a 9' plus Ugly Stick" for using worms' shad or unleaded grub worm bodies with the twisted tail "Twister Tail Brand I find to get the flashiest action if metallic flaked White Grub worm for Shue pique or about any large commonly considered trash fish just to have a blast having a challenging fight using lighter weight string in something like an ambassador 5000 reel maybe 8-12 lb. line or tippet or leader using fishing line and tying the drop float weighted setup mentioned or simply using a bullet weight and jamming a toothpick in tip or end of weight or using a swivel to limit the distance the bullet weight's travel distance to adjust the height off the ground to help narrow a level of the worm's distance off the ground to better target a depth for various times of the day" Well back to worm action but if you drop the tip as low as possible and using the feel of the weight you will quickly raise the tip of the rod then drop the tip to gain slack or keep tension to increase the travel of the weight as it drops to the ground, but when you drop the tip quickly and allow enough slack to get it to travel very little or no distance causing the weight  to force the bait to basically or hopefully get a darting action that imitates a wounded action because the abrupt change of direction with added shortened darting action close to top of obstruction causes Large low lying monsters to attack because of their instinct to attack weak prey even not during feeding times. I've also used shallow diver shad like small billed broken back Scatter Rap Jointed 1-2 joints Rapala Brand lures or in extremely clear deep water I like to put a Gold Doll Lure but the first thing to do is drill a hole slightly smaller than with of spine of the bait, in the center preferably, making sure not to dig in any of the walls on the inside of hollow of bait and inject a buoyant non expanding chem to cause the bait to float  "Make sure not to disturb the rattles while adding high  buoyancy to top of Gold Doll Lure" and instead of attaching the string to front eye swap the bottom center treble hook and anchor eye causing you to tie the string to the bottom center of the bait and allowing the lure to stay above obstacles along Bottom working it with lesser strokes by picking up the weight off ground slightly either slowly covering short distances with multiple drops in various patterns causing the bait to rise and lower rhythmically to get desired wounded fish pattern to give the best flash while simulating best wounded baitfish pattern for your desired bait fish in your area.  I'm giving fishing tips on a Forger's Forum lol (Commercial link removed per TOS)

Show you an image of the for mentioned Lure, but I can't seem to find the specific Lure I'm talking about, But It's Diamond-shaped with no bill flat sides and containing Rattles that it's the dept of use depends completely on how you work it, so it has low buoyancy so if you can try a Caulk that can add Buoyancy to top of the lure so you can cause it to float where you get the desired speed of rising in the bait to get desired swimming speed for current speed of fish for water temp, I'm sure you know about how weather conditions and water temp and depth depict swim speed and desired time needed to display injured action and stillness crankbaits and worms and such various depth action lures need to spend to properly display stillness and swim speed and injured action besides darting effects to get best results for current conditions. Getting the proper speed on the rise of bait after weight settles to the floor you pick up and lower the weight allowing Lure to rise a little faster than the lifting and dropping of the weight allowing the lure Gaine enough height to get the proper distance of travel to achieve desired travel distance for desired injury effect from darting shake and rattle for desired conditions so you can control the area you want to fish so you can fish an area heavily to draw out the bigger lazier Monsters that are hard to get in Clear. Murky or any type of visibility in Water of any Type just changes color to match current conditions or attract a specific Monster.

[Fontneaux]

The name is Pronounced like Beaudreaux or Thibodeaux would be pronounced The name is now spelled Fontenot but people not from my area usually try to pronounce it as Fon ta not but it's Pronounced Font Nouh like Dough would sound. It was originally spelled the way I did in the user name. My dad's Grandpa and his Dad and Uncles came to the US in the 1800s and my Dad said all the papers from Europe the name was spelled Fontneaux in all mention of Family Name including Signatures on Documents and Family Bible or family personal paperwork But when they needed proof of ID in USA back then Baptismal Papers could be used instead of Birth Certificates since Europe wasn't developed to a point of Giving Birth Certificates to prove citizenship and proof of age. But to get to my point the Catholic Church was only church that registers its baptisms' They had to get those papers and the Churched thought the name should be Americanized I guess and changed European Spelling of it and now people don't know how to pronounce it. Most of the time I talk to people from up north once I tell them the Original Spelling they usually think about Thibodeaux and they instantly say they could Pronounce the Fontneaux Spelling 

Edited March 22, 2022 by Mod30
Remove excessive quote.

[Fontneaux]

3 hours ago, Frosty said:

Do you have a name, nickname, handle, etc. we may address you by, your login is hard for my dented brain to remember. N need to apologize to ME for being long rambles, it's one of my trademarks. 

I'm not familiar with the fishing knots you describe, Dad and I used a "Blood knot, similar to a hangman's noose. We used swivels and clip swivels unless we were fly fishing. 

My Mom spent her Teens In Miami after living an hr. at today's speeds down a Washboard Road which came out about dead center between Valdas' a and Vidalia Georgia which at 75 mph they are about 2 hours apart but her Family minus Father moved to Miami about the time she was a Teen so her immediate Family either lives in the same area of Georgia basically exact same road but maybe a few miles down the road but those that were old enough to be on their own before Moving Live in Georgia and the ones that grew up in Miami live there, Jacksonville or in the Keys like Key Largo Florida which her oldest brother moved thereafter claiming 2 Full Military Retirement Pensions and Started Lobster Trapping and we would vacation there one of her Brothers worked for Disney Land Over the robotics and animatronics for the underground area of the Park and would sometimes give us the 6 Free Passes he received every year as a Job benefit and we would spend a couple of weeks there or visit her sister's Family in Georgia so i had tons of new fishing experience and obtained techniques  I developed using the most popular lures and Techniques in in Georgia and Florida Fresh and salt water from different areas that I also gained From traveling across the USA. The most difficult areas I have Fished besides the various areas around Louisiana and Arkansas and Texas waters Fresh and Salt and when I was growing up was Top Water in Clearwater in local Ponds Mostly private or Borrow pits that filled up and somebody stocked theirs and during heavy rains and Major storms the fish will transfer from other stocked water sources such as marshes rivers and streams but since the visibility in the water was so clearly visible every fish could easily see us so they knew not to bite any topwater lure no matter what you used if you couldn't back away from shore that the fish couldn't see  us they very seldom hung around once they heard that Unnatural Splash that hard and/or any stiff artificial lure hitting the surface of the Water so those places we learned to use diving or crankbaits slightly above the top of heavy obstructions on the floor at different depts to put enough distance and increase the amount of Matter in the water between the fish and to entry point of Lure hitting the water surface trying to lessen the Signature signs that fish use to tell it's not a real fish  will be dampened by the shear amount of surface between me and the entry of the Lure. So. learning how to Modify various Techniques to obtain the desired effect I want to have to try to modify certain looking baits that can't perform to the specks I need to be able to catch fish in various Conditions with a limited amount of tackle to tote around with limited travel arrangements such as vehicle type and time away and need for the food would dictate how I fished throughout my life since I just couldn't find the exact look and color and swim style I needed to really catch Fish and what style of Fishing I was in the mood for if I was working out of town since I work either 7/12s and or 16s I learned how to AFK Fish in different ways trying local techniques and Best performing Bait in the area and changing types of bait in nets or traps that locals use to obtain fish in the area 

[George N. M.]

Actually, most of the Protestant Churches recorded (and still do) baptisms in parish/church records.  They are a main source of genealogical research.  My wife, the family genealogist, has been researching my family history in Swedish parish records (Sweden has been Protestant since the 16th century) which are very accurate and go back to the 17th century.  The real trick is Swedish abbreviations and handwriting.

State issued birth certificates were part of the secularization movement of the 19th century.  For example, civil divorces and marriage became a thing in Europe and the US in the 2d half of the 19th century.  Before that, marriages, divorces, and wills were all a function of the church.  The timing varied from country to country and state to state but by 1900 pretty much everywhere had a civil system in place as it is now.

"By hammer and hand all arts do stand." 

PS I, at least, looked at your name and thought "font-noo."  Also, reading your fishing account, I found it interesting but more punctuation would have helped a lot.  I know that if you are writing a stream of consciousness it can be hard to pause and figure out where the commas, periods, and paragraph breaks should go but they sure make for easier reading for old guys like me and others.

GNM

[Fontneaux]

10 hours ago, ThomasPowers said:

In my mountaineering class in college we were not allowed out of the classroom till we could tie a bowline one handed, with our off hand, behind our backs!   It was the "rescue knot" and so if you got in trouble on the rockface they wanted to bed able to drop a rope to you and have you do a proper bowline.    I probably should practice that again to show the grandkids---been a few years since college in the mid 1970's...

In my experience; most pattern welded billets do best if the ends are trimmed off before using for a blade.   

As for FiF; would you go to a surgeon who learned surgery from watching medical shows on commercial TV?

Arc welding the ends is what all the folks I know doing cable do. (BTW been forge welding over 35 years now and so know a few folks!)

I'm from Lake Charles Louisiana and the show just intrigued me and made Wana try to learn weapon Smithing by Forge because i love the Folding and other grain pattern techniques obtained through forging weapons and It's kind of Gave me all these blades and metal patterns through Forging process and ancient metallurgy techniques that are available in the past present and maybe I could adapt a technique or create a new technique never heard of and get a design unique to my technique that may become very Desired. I see the people on the show doing these amazing things with the metals and techniques they perform and some that have very little adaptability with problem-solving skills and I'm watching and all these ideas pop in my head to fix major issues that cause catastrophic failures and a lot of it I think I could solve with my low heat Stickrod welding abilities could easily fill areas and allow me to grind off metal that otherwise can't be ground out because structural issues can't be fixed by Forging new metal to the material because of unbalancing heat across the surface of the material causing undue and unwanted material failures. I learned to weld and braze various Metals that should not be weldable because the melting temperatures of materials vary from material to material. I worked on a few US Military vessels causing me to learn how to bevel and allowing me to use Materials that are Hardened by adding metals like Nickle and carbon blends designed to harden material to be hard enough to be armor for Navy Ship Hulls For war combat and weld a T-Butt Fit having to completely weld all surface area of joint using a piece of Plain Carbon Steel Plate To the Armored Steel Plate When the Armored Plate Metal was 1 1/2 inch thick and the carbon plate was 1/2' and/or 1/4' Thickness which causes a major issue melting the Thinner carbon  steel with a much lower Melting Point than the Armored Plate and thinning the carbon causes more issues when trying to penetrate the armored plate with the welding process because increasing the thickness of the More Heat resilient Metal gives it an increased heat resistance I Guess because the thicker steel causes most welders to have to increase Heat and sometimes having to use sturdier rod sizes to be able to conduct enough heat in order to break down the surface area of the Metal deep enough to break through material enough to accept the Material the rod Is made of in order to add enough of the metal and be able to control the heat whereas the carbon being so thin can't handle near the heat needed to infuse the new material to the Thick Armored Metal mixture good enough to be strong bond and not completely blow out the thin carbon steel since the extreme difference of melting temps between the metals and thickness of materials magnify the properties that are causing major problems increased between the Metals. Starting my weld I had to figure out how to focus enough Heat on the Heavy-Duty Thicker Steel and not completely blow threw the carbon because the extreme heat needed to melt deep enough into the Heavier plate is too intense for the low temp thin carbon plate to withstand so it won't hold up to mixing the metals to form a strong bond. and since I was a ship fitter I had to work with all types of fitting various metals together but the worse was welding thin 5/8 stainless steel flat bar  brackets for various brass and noncarbon metals like bronze either by welding or brazing the bracket metal was lightweight  because the need to be able to be noncorrosive due to saltwater conditions and high temp and damage taking ability through the riggers of combat I had to weld the but of the thin ss flat bar to the Extremely Thick Armored Hull being thick enough to require a J-Bevel in order to be able to weld 2 sheets of it during the construction of the Hull so that causes a need to reach increased heat to melt the armored steel to blend the 3/32nd ss rod material to the extremely thin SS Bar Material together to form a proper bond to hold together and having to learn how to heat-treat Green yellow and orange Thin wall pipe to thick and heavy Brass sockets that require silver Sauder insert rings and not over melt or under heat the Sauder insert and braze the edge of the thick cast molded sockets and heat the pipe enough to make all materials across various surfaces and material combinations adding differences in material thicknesses having to also not over or under heat bonds in several areas and being different angels during heating process in one surface and having to overall heat the entire fitting in order to melt materials you can't see haw the temp is affecting the insert while heating the entire socket enough to heat the pipe that's inserted in the socket enough to allow the Silver Sauder to bond to the pipe and socket without overheating the whole socket and causing the silver insert to blow out because the fitting is to hot from heating the outside edge of the socket and pipe enough to bond by melting the Sauder to both pipe and thick casted socket and the acid flux preparation to help assure the surfaces bond easier and properly. Control of heat issues needed to bond so many types of materials and having to do all my welding with the absolutely smallest welding machine on the planet., just big enough to melt any 3/32 flux type welding stick. and that's all we had available to use so having to be able to fuse stainless to armored plate hull over 3' inches thick might be able to bring heat setting to 36-40 at Max because that was as high as the machine was capable of unless you wanted to carry around a wire feeder for the Mig attachment that has a very short cable with 2 male ends to plug the welding machine to run and power the MIG wire feeder and have to learn and deal with the speed of the wire feeding speed controls every time I had to change material bonds that occurred with each and every project and fit. Sorry for rambling. I have Discord and TeamSpeak rooms if you would like to join me so we could actually talk instead of typing it might be a little more comfortable for us if you are interested in sharing stories You can download either for free all you need is a mic on a computer or just do browser on a smartphone for discord or download TeamSpeak3 from either I Store or Play Store and I can give you a FB friend request and I could help you setup Either if you have any trouble setting it up and getting in my Room in either. my E-mail is bigtwister420@gmail.com

[Fontneaux]

1 hour ago, George N. M. said:

Actually, most of the Protestant Churches recorded (and still do) baptisms in parish/church records.  They are a main source of genealogical research.  My wife, the family genealogist, has been researching my family history in Swedish parish records (Sweden has been Protestant since the 16th century) which are very accurate and go back to the 17th century.  The real trick is Swedish abbreviations and handwriting.

State issued birth certificates were part of the secularization movement of the 19th century.  For example, civil divorces and marriage became a thing in Europe and the US in the 2d half of the 19th century.  Before that, marriages, divorces, and wills were all a function of the church.  The timing varied from country to country and state to state but by 1900 pretty much everywhere had a civil system in place as it is now.

"By hammer and hand all arts do stand." 

PS I, at least, looked at your name and thought "font-noo."  Also, reading your fishing account, I found it interesting but more punctuation would have helped a lot.  I know that if you are writing a stream of consciousness it can be hard to pause and figure out where the commas, periods, and paragraph breaks should go but they sure make for easier reading for old guys like me and others.

GNM

Yes, I'm very much Geeked out Minded right now and basically making a couple of paragraphs into one long-running sentence because of too many words going through my mind, plus I'm a bad Typer and speller because I can't remember key positions with my Finger Memory reflexes to type well. Plus, My Grammer and knowledge of sentence structure are not up to par. Speaking of memory reflexes There is a job placement program in my city called JTPA and they gave me an assessment test. My score in the dexterity and reflex section was so high they said it made the best career option for me was an airplane pilot but there were no pilot schools available anywhere near me at the time when I was in my early 20s. Reading isn't my strong point. I was born with a strong stigma in my right eye and a very mild one in my right eye and was never checked to see what was wrong with why I couldn't read well because I never noticed that viewing small print caused me bad problems with book learning and I not taken to an optometrist till High School so I guess my brain didn't  develop a proper Neuro Network to remember written print but since I was explained how to do are showed physically how to do stuff and verbally explained everything that my teachers In Boy Scouts thought was important for me to know and had to remember because the extreme need for this knowledge because of dangerous hazards or conditions needed to be met for survival measures like needed materials to have on different campouts or any other events that could have Hazards that I need to be able to recognize and be able to safely deal with them. I was really lucky that stuff I needed to learn to differentiate between 2 different issues that can be caused by the same circumstances Like in First Aide I needed to know how to determine the difference between Heat Stroke and Heat Exhaustion because doing the wrong set of First Aide methods because you treated the victim for the wrong illness could cause death quickly because the method to Treat Heat Exhaustion instead of Heat Stroke will cause major quick occurring symptoms from neglecting the issue or Long term medical issues that cause real severe long-term health problems for mistreating the problem. They taught us rhymes to remember how to know which treatment to issue when the tale-tale signs that allow you to know which of the 2 issues are occurring and what the most important must-do treatment that has to be done no matter what when the symptom is occurring. and how to tell a coral snake and a king coral snake, which will allow us to know if we should avoid or kill it or safe to handle because the coral snake is poisonous and King Coral is beneficial to the environment as are all King Snake Species. They eat poisonous type snakes and smaller ones decimate tick populations in wooded or grassy areas. But the First Aide poem is If the Head is red lift the head if the head is pale lift the tail. It tells me the blood pressure is higher than a healthy level so when you cool down the victim you get them in the shade and raise the head of the victim's heart and core body in hope of blood moving away from the head to prevent catastrophic damage to blood vessels and brain tissue because the vessels can pop or be permanently damaged from the stress the potential excess pressure in the vessels. since the brain really doesn't heal per se as well as the rest of the human body the victim could stroke out and be permanently damaged yet if you raise the feet when the head is colored red you can increase the pressure and the victim could stroke and even die because of how we treated them. Luckily with exhaustion head being pale flush or major color loss in complexion mistreatment isn't as deadly an issue since blood is needed in the upper body and brain victim can have brain damage or death from being oxygen-starved it still can be deadly if the brain becomes deprived of oxygen for very long. Tissue death occurs in 5 minutes no matter what tissue of the Human body. Mistreatment of the problem is more likely to occur in sensitive organs and/or lower extremities like damage or loss of smaller appendages such as fingers and mainly toes or hands and feet. Heart and Brain death is complication issues that happen in both Health issues, but the most prominent symptom is telling you what treatment plan to follow to prevent catastrophic health problems.

[Fontneaux]

Frost   Quote from post As for FiF; would you go to a surgeon who learned surgery from watching medical shows on commercial TV? Well TBH I go to a Nurse Practitioner and the statement in their titles and Doctors is that they practice Medicine. Look at Dr office signs that list the Degree type with The Physician or look at Degree certificate or Diplomas Literally say Practitioner, not a physician. I found that out in the early 2k years because our Hospital system was government-run and operated to educate college Med Students and allowed them to be guaranteed an internship position but they also had a private pharmacy and the Pharmacists there displayed their licenses and Degrees and any Licensed Medical Professional Had to Display their Papers for education In their offices if they were not a physician that was a room visit physician their License and Degree was clearly displayed in their office unless they were not a full scheduled physician of everyday practice like psychiatrists which were scheduled to work at all 3 of the Hospitals that were state ran or had a side practice. Note any time they refer to a doctor's office it is referred to as a practice. so, since that's out of the way! Why go to a Dr when their job description says that they practice Medicine? Since they practice Medicine, do they really know much about what they are doing or not? I've seen tons of psyches and all the problems I have had with Mental Health Medication side effects and trying to explain or convince the Doctors, especially Male Doctors they keep increasing the doses to solve the side effects or problems that started after the meds were taken long enough to be working effectively at the prescribed dose, they always said it was a symptom of the medical problem when a lot of the problem was caused by my environment for the Most part. But other than failproof or general symptom relief medications like antibiotics of injury treatment most Doctors are major fails at unfamiliar problems out of their specializations so generally ERs are setup to stabilize patients then run operations as making sure proper treatments and procedures occur during their shift and after health is considered stable enough to transfer the victim to a more knowledgeable Doctor to Practice treatment/ Administer Treatment?

[JHCC]

10 hours ago, Fontneaux said:

thought the name should be Americanized I guess

My seventh-great-grandfather Johann Philip Heintz was in a group of Moravians who emigrated from the Palatinate (western Germany) to Pennsylvania in 1738; the family name subsequently appeared in the records of the Moravian Church variously as "Hohns", "Hoens", "Haines", "Haynes", and "Hanes". The last of these became the standard spelling from about 1820 onward and was actually my paternal grandmother's middle name.

7 hours ago, Fontneaux said:

Lake Charles Louisiana

Excellent; we have a number of Louisianan members. Hope you manage to connect in person.

[ThomasPowers]

TLDR; but I did skim a bit.  You mentioned pattern welding WRT weapons; but it does seem to be an outgrowth of using the bloomery system of making real wrought iron where the bloom is forged out, cut, stacked and forge welded multiple times:  Bloom => muck bar => merchant bar => singly refined WI => doubly refined WI => triply refined WI.  Pretty much every culture that used the bloomery method to smelt wrought iron also used pattern welding...

As for odd welding; they do a lot of explosive welding out here at EMRTC including welding dissimilar metals together!  The campus has a number of art pieces showing both explosive welding and explosive repousse. (The explosions often rattle my shop a couple of times a week.)

I only type with about 5 fingers total and have to look at the keys for punctuation; but it can be done!

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

That's better than my 2 finger typing.