Cable forging

[Pigsticker]

Should I be doing separate answers for people ? You guys are being so helpful I don't want to miss anything.

Tx

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

One thing I haven't seen mentioned (or missed it) is to wire brush the cable when taking it out of the forge, before adding the flux. Like Thomas said scale on the workpiece and it won't weld. That applies to any billet not just cable.

You're doing just fine with the way you are answering.

BTW: Welcome from the Ozark mountains.

[ThomasPowers]

Pigsticker: if you are worried about confusion; just prefix a reply with the name of the person who you want to pay attention, e.g. ....

[Pigsticker]

I haven't tried anything yet. It seemed too optimistic. Does running lean mean cool? Isn't ok to have scale on if  it falls off?  Forge is 73$ starter and I have uninstalled kaowool. Sorry bout underlining 

Ifcw unless I'm being too liberal with application, it seems something has always cooled to red and I can't scrape it all off

TP tx

 

 

[LeeJustice]

What do you mean you have uninstalled kaowool?  Did you take it out, uninstall, or have you not yet installed it?  It should be rigidized for the safety of your lungs, and then have a refractory, hard layer over it.  Please tell me that you are not trying to forge while wearing flip flops or sandals.  I don't like looking at men's toes, or really any toes, for that matter. 

[ThomasPowers]

No "lean" means oxidizing, not temperature related as often lean burners are hotter.  As I came into blacksmithing through bladesmithing I tend to run reducing AKA "rich" to decrease scaling.  I also use MASSIVE VENTILATION as rich means more CO production.

[Purple Bullet]

Ah! The picture is getting clearer. You REALLY need to get with some experienced help. They can help you with all kind of things, like safety equipment and how to install AND render your kaowool safe to use in your forge. 

[Pigsticker]

Ifcw unless I'm being too liberal with application, it seems something has always cooled to red and I can't scrape it all off

TP tx

 

 

[Pigsticker]

LJ kaowool is 4.5"x9"x24". Still uninstalled. It's will replace insulation that's not covered? And those are some cool shoes I painted toe images on. Flying flux or whatever shoots out isn't as bad as a hot pot or pan. I get less than 5 burns per knife cause my rail is on the floor so it doesn't rain.

TP I only have this 9" forge, open on both sides often being blown by beach wind.

PB thanks. I'm really not in a position to learn from traditional teaching. I really need to do no more than I can remember at a time and my brains had a pretty tough life. 

[LeeJustice]

Oh, about the rail.  I meant to ask if you have it on end or if you have the entire length on the floor (horizontal).  You would do better to have it on end.  What is the forge then?  A brick pile?  Metal jacket minus, for now, the Kaowool?

Be patient.  I got the forge that Mikey recommended, and I am taking my time, not getting too anxious to use it.  I want it to work well and to last long.  I bought more rigidizer because I was not satisfied with the application the first time.  I used the entire bottle that came with the kit.  SO I waited for more to reapply.  It seems good now, so I can move on to applying the hard refractory layer, probably this weekend.

[Buzzkill]

I have to agree with Purple Bullet here.  It seems like you're trying to fly before learning to walk.  In one respect I admire your "can do" attitude, but it appears you're missing some basic knowledge and experience that will increase your likelihood of success.  Don't get me wrong.  Quite a few of us on here are some combination of introverted, stubborn, and independent which makes us less likely to seek help in person. Some of us also know from experience that a little time with someone who is proficient in the activity we're trying as a beginner saves a ton of time and reduces the failure rate by an amazing amount.

However, if you really want to travel this road alone and with the advice of strangers on the internet, please do get the kaowool installed correctly, rigidized, and coated with something to keep microscopic fibers from ending up in your lungs.

Beyond that, if you must try to do this solo then take a step back and let's work on forge welding some billets with just a few layers of flat stock  so you can get a feel for the process.   Getting a good forge weld on cable can be significantly more difficult to accomplish than forge welding layers of flat stock of uniform size.  Based on the pictures you posted I didn't see any successful forge welding in any of them.  I saw smashed oxidized steel.   If you do all your prep work correctly and hit the right temperature then the cable should start welding while you're twisting it tightly - before you start hammering on it.

Again, I can appreciate your ambition, but backing up a bit will give you a much better chance at success in the long run.

[BillyBones]

If you are having trouble seeing color get some sort of box or container, preferably not cardboard, so that you can have a shaded dark area to see it better in.  

Is this the first time welding? Or have you welded billets or anything before? It is my opinion that trying to weld all those little wires together is a lot harder than 2 pieces of flat bar, especially with out a swage. Welding like any other skill takes time to develop. Kind of trying to run before you can even crawl so to say. 

And i see Buzzkill has beat me to the punch on suggesting to start with a couple peices of flat bar and work your way up.

[Pigsticker]

LJ kaowool is 4.5"x9"x24". Still uninstalled. It's will replace insulation that's not covered? And those are some cool shoes I painted toe images on. Flying flux or whatever shoots out isn't as bad as a hot pot or pan. I get less than 5 burns per knife cause my rail is on the floor so it doesn't rain.

TP I only have this 9" forge, open on both sides often being blown by beach wind.

PB thanks. I'm really not in a position to learn from traditional teaching. I really need to do no more than I can remember at a time and my brains had a pretty tough life. 

[Pigsticker]

BK I'm an xxxxxxxxx w nothing to fill my time, ever. This is it and I'm obviously ok with failure. Just less each time. Should I send the wool back. How do I attach flat stock to weld it? 

BB only thing I've done is 2 hr blacksmithing class but we didn't weld or harden anything. I made a dinner triangle bell with a twisted striker

BB does sunny day effect only if you can see it or not or is the actual color seen a different shade. I think I e got a decent system to see color in the day but if it changes shades of color ive gotta do more.

Tx

LJ what would you use to hold rail on it's end. I actually though about using it upside down for a wider surface. Why on end?

[Pigsticker]

Should I send back kaowool and get whatever is in there uncovered now?

[NoGoodWithUsernames]

It looks like you've already got some sort of ceramic wool in your forge, though it's hard to tell if it has been coated with anything. Does it feel "crispy" if you poke the end of the wool with something? If not it will need to be "rigidized" and some castable refractory and even some IR coating would also be a good idea (and help the forge be more efficient, easier to get to welding temps) https://www.iforgeiron.com/forum/257-insulation-and-refractories/ is a good place to start reading. Lots of information and can be overwhelming so start just with rigidizing, then move on to castable refractory, then if you wish move on to coatings such as plistix if you want to add that. 

Lots of good information from guys with lots of experience with gas forges on here. 

 

I have very limited experience with any sort of forge welding so far, but I think a good starting place would be folding flat stock onto itself so you don't need to worry about fastening it together. It will hold itself together where it was folded. It seems a lot of historical knives and axes etc were done this way, folded wrought iron with a high carbon steel in the center to make the edge. 

 

edit- Also Welcome! I would imagine it rather frustrating diving in head first, but if you can be more stubborn than the steel I'm sure it will pay off. If you can't or won't do in person training or visiting a smith one on one, then this forum is very good. Just be willing and ready to take the constructive criticism and advise offered. These guys are pretty strong on good safety, and for good reason! So they will always steer you in that direction, but of course all of the replies on here are our advise, so do what you want with them.

[Pigsticker]

Nguw the insulation in kiln is crunchy and looks just like insulation. I'd be xxxxxxx mad if I got the forge new and they didn't tell me to do something to prevent cancer. I'd get that bezo.

[BillyBones]

Before the mods get on ya, please watch the profanity. Not try to be a ... about it, just dont want to see ya in trouble. My rule of thumb is if i would not say it to my 6 year old grand daughter i wont say it here. Keep in mind that this forum is open to anyone and there are a few smiths that are in their early teens so we try and keep it family freindly. 

Have you tried forging in the evening or when the sun is down? Generally the darker it is the better you can see the color. I use solid fuel so for me color is kind of irrelevant, cant see it at all buried under a pile of coal. Somthing you can try to get a better idea of when you are at temp is get a small piece of stock, say 1/4" round, get that hot and touch the piece in the forge with it. When it sticks, and you will feel it, you are at temp. 

No, do not send back the Kaowool. The lining is a consumable and you will need to replace it at some point, may be a couple years but at least you will have it on hand when you do need it. 

As far as welding the ends together if you do not want to drive to the welder try your local mechanic. Most mechanics have a welder for thing like exhaust work, and especially body shops. 

[Pigsticker]

Apologize for my language. I don't have granddaughters yet. But I'll try to get settled down. Billionaire giving me cancer is evocative.

[NoGoodWithUsernames]

That is good, it sounds like it has already at least been rigidized. It would probably still be a good idea to get some of the castable refractory and coat all visible wool as well. You can get small batches here from Glenn, he buys in bulk and breaks it up into smaller containers so we don't need to buy a huge 50lb bag that we will never use up!

I have no idea the make of your forge but if it was $73 then I would imagine it came from China or somewhere else where they don't care about your health so that's why these guys are trying to watch out for ya. 

I think that's all the advice I've got, like I said I don't have much experience with forge welding. But keep us updated with progress and pictures!

 

[Pigsticker]

Mechanic is a good idea. I even use to work on cars. how hard do I push to make it stick, and what is stick? I can pull out of forge with this stick? Or does it just feel sticky 

Sorry about poohole talk everyone. It seemed like I could claim it once or your members would use it often concerning my posts.

Thanks guys

 

 

I'm not sure, but the insulation is more like crispy cotton candy than something ever covered with anything mortar like

Forge is hobung brand so I'm guessing Oregon?

[George N. M.]

You may know this already but I'll repeat it.  You have a VERY narrow window of time to forge weld after you take the piece out of the fire.  So, you have to be QUICK.  This means having your anvil close to your forge so that you can move the work in one smooth motion and having your tools and anything else you need prepositioned so that you can grab them without looking.  Some dry runs/rehersals  with everything cold helps to develop muscle memory (kinesthetic learning) so that things are faster and easier when everything is hot.

We're a pretty accepting group here with folk ranging in age from teens to 80s, education from dropouts to advanced degrees, we stay away from politics and sex, and we keep the language down to a very G rated level.  Don't use anything you would want your 10 year old grand daughter to hear.  We have tons of experience with blacksmithing.  The cumulative experience probably runs into centuries.  And as a community we have a lot of experience in life and offer the benefit of our experience freely.  We have folk who have struggled with depression, anger, and other mental issues and we have some people who have suffer traumatic brain injuries and other physical disabilities and have and are still dealing with them.  So, you are very welcome here and please take anything we say in the spirit that we are trying to help you succeed in the craft.  

And, regarding insulation:  You want to have as much as is possible and still give you a decent working area inside your forge.  And it needs to be sealed off from the direct fire to preserve it and to keep bits of fiber out of your longs.  Like heavy metal poisoning, it is a bad thing, very similar to silicosis that miners can get.  It causes pretty irreversable damage to your lungs.

"By hammer and hand all arts fo stand."

[Purple Bullet]

Pigsticker - I can understand the desire to learn on your own. If you really want to successfully forge weld cable, I suggest you back up a bit and start over. There is a place in Asheville where you can buy bulk stoker bituminous coal. This forum is not for advertising but I can pm you the name. Then do a search in this forum for JABOD (Just A Box Of Dirt). Then an old hair dryer (or whatever air mover you can find - not high pressure!) and you will have a much better chance at success. I promise.

[ThomasPowers]

As various families have differing language use within them; perhaps saying "Don't use language that a Medically Retired (for anger management issues)  Marine Master Sargent *might* *possibly object to when you were speaking to his darling little daughter..."

Sure helps to be able to refer kids to IFI without worrying that their kinfolk will show up at your shop with Pitchforks and Torches---I hate it when that happens!

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

Like others have advised about language. A lot of us have developed very colorful vocabularies in different vocations. Mine in the USCG and a Police Dept. I even found out using different characters like #%^%$ for swear words won't cut it.

You might want to go back to your posts and edit the language before a moderator does. To edit, up in the R hand corner, are three dots, click on them and a box pops up with the option to edit that post.