Blacksmith Ink

[anvil]

Lol, not good for measuring hot iron,,, but if you clench your fist, the fish gets longer,,,

[ThomasPowers]

Like clenching it around a beer bottle?

[Scott NC]

  If your drinking beer while fishing you don't need a ruler or scale.

[Frosty]

On 2/3/2022 at 11:09 AM, Steve Sells said:

4th degree burns are continuous burning like Nukes or chemicals that keep burning you up after the initial contact

You've made this correction before Steve, In fact to me talking about seeing my hide puff flame. I thought I'd looked it up them, I'll have to again. That just does not jibe with anything I learned and I can't find that definition. 

I've only looked through 3 sites and not one mentioned radiation nor continuing burning after the source is removed. The exception sort of is chemical in it may not be possible to remove the source of the burning easily or at all. 

All the sites I looked at talked about charring and depth of penetration all mentioned scalding as a cause of 4th. degree burns as in boiling water spilled on clothing or immersion. 

It seemed the common characteristic on the sites I skimmed was deep tissue damage and tissue death. 

I know you're a trained medic and it's been a couple decades since I took a 1st. aid course but I've been taking them since I was maybe 9 and Dad taught first aid. 

Do you have a link so I can update my info, please? 

Frosty The Lucky.

[JHCC]

This is from an info site of the University of Rochester Medical Center:

What are the classifications of burns?

Burns are classified as first-, second-, third-degree, or fourth-degree depending on how deeply and severely they penetrate the skin's surface. 

• First-degree (superficial) burns. First-degree burns affect only the outer layer of skin, the epidermis. The burn site is red, painful, dry, and with no blisters. Mild sunburn is an example. Long-term tissue damage is rare and often consists of an increase or decrease in the skin color.

• Second-degree (partial thickness) burns. Second-degree burns involve the epidermis and part of the lower layer of skin, the dermis. The burn site looks red, blistered, and may be swollen and painful. 

• Third-degree (full thickness) burns. Third-degree burns destroy the epidermis and dermis. They may go into the innermost layer of skin, the subcutaneous tissue. The burn site may look white or blackened and charred. 

• Fourth-degree burns. Fourth-degree burns go through both layers of the skin and underlying tissue as well as deeper tissue, possibly involving muscle and bone. There is no feeling in the area since the nerve endings are destroyed.

SOURCE

[Anachronist58]

Yuck.

[Frosty]

That jibes with what I learned and read today. 

I'm confused by Steve's description and I'd like some clarification, it's not what I learned. We may just be using a different jargon, I don't know. 

Frosty The Lucky.

[Steve Sells]

I am going by what I was told when working the burn unit nearly 20 years ago, 3rd was classified as complete destruction of tissue, not just skin layers, maybe they have changed things since then

[Frosty]

I'm thinking you wrote 3rd. but meant 4th. in your above post. 

Burst blisters and deeper damage is what I was taught were indicators of 3rd. degree. I'm pretty sure we're on the same page 1-3.

It's 4th degree burns I'm wondering about now. Chemical and "nuclear" radiation certainly can cause 4th. degree burns but I was taught there's a threshold of damage and type. Charring being #1 and lack of pain being caused by destroyed nerves #2. Charred or slick white skin were strong indicators, depth of damage depended on length of contact. 

The first time I saw photos of 4th degree burns I vomited and had nightmares but Red Cross 1st. aid courses were pretty scary for a Cub scout. They still horrify and creep  me out.

When I describe the little charred hemispherical craters in my skin and only momentary pain as 4th. degree it's based on the first two indicators of 4th degree burns. Charred flesh, relatively deep penetration and a split second of pain followed by zero sensation in the site. Admittedly none penetrated far through the skin I think the smell was largely from subcutaneous fat burning.

They were caused by welding spatter and in a couple cases nearly sparking hot, hot cut, pinch offs. The contact was broken by steam pressure between my hide and the HOT bits. 

I think they qualify as 4th. but could certainly be wrong I was never checked by a doctor and there has been no lasting scarring. My last 1st. aid class was maybe 18-19 years ago but was pretty inclusive. State DOT road crews are considered 1st. responders so we got what used to be called "medic 1" level training.  When I was a field guy we got "med2" level training because we were often a day or two from evac. 40 hour courses that included a number of do it or the victim will die techniques. I've thank God have never had to use.

I'm rambling again, sorry Steve. I'm not trying to argue but I was pretty sure I wasn't wrong calling those spatter burns 4th. and I've had more and better classes than the average citizen and haven't seen different on online sites. Still I could be wrong.

Regardless I won't mention them again, in case. 

Respectfully,

Jerry

[Davor]

I have a few tattoos and been recently getting a few more. So I got an anvil on the inside of my bicep. It is hard to get a picture because it is curved a bit.