Kexel Werkstatt Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 Yes I searched, did not find anything on this specific question. If I missed it, feel free to bark at me and provide the thread link. I'm quite comfortable with that. I read multiple times, Thomas' comment specifically: "Only grind your anvil face the amount you would grind your own face using the same tool and do your face first!"... I get that and am not talking about taking a grinder to the entire anvil face. Story: I have a ~145 pound Hay-Budden - 1910, Blacksmith's anvil. Great condition. When I first set it up, I was running it hammer-to-horn, and after taking member anvil's advice, I now run it hammer-to-heel. I am getting used to it this way. However, when I ran it hammer-to-horn, there was a very nice radiused edge on the far face near the horn, and it helped draw out very nicely. Now, I realize I can always use the bic but it was very convenient to have that rounded edge on the far side on the anvil. I am left handed, and obviously a right handed person used it before me and so over time the rounded edge probably just "made itself" with use. Now that I've spun it the other way, I have the sharp edge on the far side of the anvil. Again, I know there are other ways around this but that one spot was again very convenient for working on the face (far edge), and not getting the sharp edge marks in the material. I do not want to wait 4,000 hours to naturally create a rounded edge if I don't have to. I have plenty of sharp edges available. So now my question - if I take a few minutes to only grind a little bit on the far side edge to create a bit of a radius, a slightly rounded edge, have I angered not only the Anvil Gods but the Senior Staff here as well? I understand the construction of my anvil by manufacture date so I have plenty of tool steel on the face to work with, I would not get it any hotter than having hot steel on it, and would go slow, take my time, and only take about a 2-3" section on the far side using a high grit flapdisc to create the radius. At most I can see myself grinding off about 1/16" thickness on the angle to create the "starter" rounded edge, and let my banging improve it over time. Thoughts on this? Thanks in advance. Edited to add a couple stock photos of my anvil for reference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlatLiner Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 I rounded off the edges of one of my anvils only because the saw thooth edges of my anvil weren't condusive to what I was doing. My anvil had been used for cold shoeing horses. Now I have found alot of uses for them. I would of preferred to have better edges but I couldn't work with it as it was. I just sourced a block of S7 steel with good edges for the times I needed a "sharper" edge. Since then I have found another anvil with some better edges. It now sits next to the first. I use them both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will-I-am Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 I was also interested in "sharp" edges of new anvil. My new acciaio anvil will be here tomorrow. The anvil is cast steel from china and weighs 132lb/60kg; it is cheap $2.30 per pound but got descent reviews. People talk about taking a angle grinder and dulling the sharp edges and grinding the paint off the horn. I understand the paint fumes could be toxic so the paint is coming off the horn. Why would sharp edges be bad? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 Go ahead, radius it. It's not like you want to grind the whole face to "restore" it. It will improve the utility of the tool, you'd have to get silly crazy to do any damage. If you use a disk grinder you don't have to worry about getting it too hot. Of course if temper colors start to run STOP and slap a wet rag on it! Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 Well; I used my browser, google chrome, and searched: rounding edge of anvil site:iforgeiron.com only got 2200 hits including such topics as: (First three.) Grinding or rounding the edges on a new anvil Rounding the edges - Repairing and Modification to Anvils Putting a radius on an anvil edge So; Have you read "Read This First"; it includes how to effectively search on this site as the site search function pulls a vacuum! Sharp edges leave nicks in your workpiece that are stress risers. Anvil Manufacturers seem to believe that the USER will know how to dress their anvil for their types of work and work methods---some people will actually leave a section of the edge sharp and use it for cutting steel! And a quote from Practical Blacksmithing a 130 year old collection of articles from a blacksmithing journal: "Practical Blacksmithing";Volume 1, published in 1889; page 110: "For my own part I am satisfied not only that the sharp edges are useless, but that they are also destructive of good work. I cannot account for their existence except as a relic of a time when the principles of forging were but little understood. I want both edges of my anvil rounded, not simply for a part of their length, but for their whole length." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frazer Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 8 minutes ago, Will-I-am said: Why would sharp edges be bad When doing half faced blows, sharp edges are far more likely to form cold shuts when flattening out the stock. Cold shuts are no bueno. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will-I-am Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 Excellent advice. I will lightly angle grind the center of mass edges to soften the sharpness so not to get cold shuts. On the area of the face with the hardy hole I will leave it sharp to cut steel; although I do want to forge a hardy hole cutter with and old brick punch later. I am going to counter sink the anvil in a large diameter sycamore round and wrap base with an old thick towchain to dampen ringing. I may squirt some silicone in the countersink too. The floor is dirt so I can bury the round deeper if the anvil rests too high but I am shooting for wrist height based on reading this site. I looked up more info with search engine as Mr. Powers suggested, thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted February 11, 2021 Share Posted February 11, 2021 It's a trick we all had to learn, usually the hard way---why we try to pass it on to everyone! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kexel Werkstatt Posted February 11, 2021 Author Share Posted February 11, 2021 Thanks all. I shall proceed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anvil Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 I radius my anvil edges from about 3/8" to zero. It is 3/8" at the step and I end the bevil about where the heel begins in front of the hardy hole. i leave the edges along the heel sharp. these sharp edges along the heel are quite handy as a cutoff hardy for some situations. An added note: I radius both edges the same, not just one edge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 I mortised my Soderfors into a Spruce block and there it lived happily for decades but loudly, chains or not. I built it a steel tripod stand and the ring was damped considerably as in I can forge without ear protection as long as I don't miss a blow and strike the anvil directly. I don't work at the anvil without hearing protection but I had to find out. Do more than just break the edge, about 1/8" radius is nice and some guys like more. Remember it's easy to widen it than make it smaller. Rather than cut stock on the edge of the anvil and invite damage to your hammers and anvil with a missed blow, find an old cold chisel or similar and forge a hot chisel or make a hack. The edge is the thinnest and least robust part of your anvil, using it for a substandard hardy or hot chisel is contraindicated. A hack is just a long piece of steel one end has been forged into a longitudinal blade. You lay it on the stock holding the handle more or less parallel with the anvil's face and drive the blade into the stock. Maybe someone has a pic they can add to the post, I don't. Anyway, keep an eye open for yard, garage, etc. sale chisels, a wide masonry chisel is perfect. Just avoid using the edge of your anvil to cut stock. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 Constant Vigilance! I once found a hand forged hack for a powerhammer at the local scrapyard! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 2 hours ago, anvil said: these sharp edges along the heel are quite handy as a cutoff hardy for some situations. I'm surprised Anvil. You don't use a hardy? What situation would make the anvil's edge your choice as a hot hardy? Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 Perhaps not having to emplace and remove the hardy all the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted February 12, 2021 Share Posted February 12, 2021 No comment. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kexel Werkstatt Posted February 12, 2021 Author Share Posted February 12, 2021 Well it's grinding weekend for me. I actually love grinding (and rasping and sanding), at least the process of it, but I hate the mess, wearing the respirator for hours, having to blow out or vacuum all the particles and dust, etc. I have a diagonal peen hammer to finish (or at least work on), some hardy tool shanks to fit, and then the anvil face edges as well. Gonna be messy in there tomorrow. I also have to refill my tanks, finish a few bottle openers, redo a rack I built (messed that one up pretty good), and I want to start this ball peen hammer - into a war hammer project I drew up. Pretty ambitious for Valentine's Day weekend. Proactively I purchased a bunch of gifts to "buy" myself some extra freedom of movement! Realistically if I can get half of the above done by Monday morning I'll consider it a success. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anvil Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 19 hours ago, Frosty said: You don't use a hardy? Note I said for some situations. And Thomas gave the correct answer. As one example, why take the time to set and remove a cut off hardy if I'm cutting a piece of quarter square, hot or cold? And another, if I draw out a taper and it's a bit long, same reason, it's just real easy to use the sharp edge on the heel of my anvil and not take the time to set and remove my cut off hardy. Basically when you are making a living in a max labor craft, time saved equals more profit and again,,, the devil is in the details. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 Makes sense. I'm never in that much of a hurry and striking the edge of my Soderfors would have you spending the saved time dressing your hammers. I have a small pair of bolt cutters I keep at hand if 1/4" is the stock and there are dykes on the table at hand. That's just me though. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rojo Pedro Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 Go slow. You can always add more radius later. I left my square horn sharp and have various radii on the rest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pnut Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 1 hour ago, Rojo Pedro said: Go slow. You can always add more radius later. Not so easy to put back though. I did pretty much the same thing. Slowly radiused the far edge by the round horn with an decreasing radius as it travels back about four or five inches and did the same on the near edge by the square horn and left the rest as is. I'm still going through the process. I take a very little off and then use it for a while. I'm going to take a bit more off the next time I set up the smithy. Pnut Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anvil Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 Frosty, I don't hit the edge of my anvil with my hammer. I have an edwards shear, a beverly shear a hot cut hardy, a cold cut hardy, and the edge of my anvil. All get used as necessary. As for time saving, people often claim one can't make a living as a blacksmith. I claim it's the little details that is the difference between succeeding and not. I'm more concerned with efficiency than time. Efficiency saves time as well as plain old energy used in a labor intense craft. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 2 hours ago, anvil said: Frosty, I don't hit the edge of my anvil with my hammer. You must be inhumanly accurate if you can trim a little off a taper a "LITTLE" to long and never miss. We weren't discussing situations where those listed cutters were concerned. Not even the hardy actually. I'm very familiar with production techniques. I was learning about them from before I was allowed in Dad's shop. It wasn't an uncommon topic at the dinner table. Not popular with my Sister and I but we didn't get a vote. Are you baiting me with the efficiency in a labor intensive craft remark? You do know the difference between efficient and effective. Yes? You often brag about being a "Traditional" blacksmith and want to talk about being efficient? Is that doing it in the most efficiently labor intensive way? You do realize you're trying to out parse and semantic someone who is WAY better at the game. This is like me visiting your shop and trying to publicly out blacksmith you. This has drifted far enough off topic to call it quits. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 Kexel: Please don't let Anvil and my antics scare you off, we get into these discussions every once in a while. We're friends there isn't really any heat in any of it. See? I didn't even take a last shot. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted February 13, 2021 Share Posted February 13, 2021 Note that when trimming a taper cutting with a broad wedge makes it easier and faster to repoint. To speed things up with a narrow hardy, cut it at an angle rather than the stock 90 degrees to the hardy edge. (I had a student making tent stakes from an old railing. Now tent stakes made by hand have a very low profit margin, free material can be too expensive if you have to work it a lot to be usable! I was watching him hot cutting the stock at 90 deg's and then taking a bunch of heats to taper the points. When I suggested he cut at a sharp angle he had a pile or reasons not to do it that way. After I left he tried it and later called me and told me it had cut his heats per stake to 1/3. Another trick about tent stakes is you don't want a long sharp taper if they will be used in forest or rocky ground. A short blunt taper will more likely bounce off a rock or root where a sharp one will try to embed itself in a root or mess up the point on a rock.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kexel Werkstatt Posted February 14, 2021 Author Share Posted February 14, 2021 I don't scare easily Frosty, no worries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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