Starting Steel

[tjdaggett]

Smiths, 

Good morning! I'm going to do my own reading on this, but I figured I'd get your thoughts as well. Among my gifts this year were a few gift cards, both to our local steel supplier and an online website. Until now I've been forging on found steel and railroad spikes. What would you suggest I buy to start out?

I will for sure buy some mild steel in 1/2-3/4" size, just for playing. But I'm also starting to think about tool-making. Which tools do you tend to need first? I'm thinking drifts, punches, and chisels, since I hear tongs aren't a good starter project. I want to make a few hammers for sure, but I know I'll need drifts and fullers first. 

Thoughts? 

[BillyBones]

Most of my punches, chisels, etc. are made from old coil springs. I have 1 that i just made from S-7. Have used it once and love it. 

I cannot say that S-7 is better than H-13 or what not but i can tell you that those guys at the steel supply are usually very knowledgeable. Tell them what you are using the steel for and they can guide you to what is a good hot working steel or cold working steel among other things. 

Also the supplier i use they have a PDF that i keep on my phone for their color codes. There is no universal color coding for the different metals. Each supplier uses their own. But you can look at it and get an idea of what colors you are looking for and which to avoid. They also have a chart hanging at the service counter but it is a pain to keep walking back and forth. 

 

[Steve Sells]

You also need to keep in mind that paint wears off,  and when you acquire too many types of steel to remember them all, you need to mark them in a way that it stays marked a few years from now when you find it again.  I suggest using a fine tip in your Dremel tool to engrave the end of bars with the ANSI numbers, they do not wear off yet are shallow enough that a fast run over the sander will remove them from the finished work. I brush my engravings with soap stone to make them more readable

[ThomasPowers]

And remember that when you cut a piece off to work with---cut from the unmarked end!

I too, would suggest you work with cheaper easily found and more easily worked alloys to start with, like 5160. The high alloy steels are really great for various tools for using; but can be a pain for in the making of such tools.  I know I "cottage cheesed" the first piece of H-13 I used and I had been smithing over a decade by then.

[Frosty]

I wouldn't advise H or S series steels until you get a REALLY good handle on heat treatment, they're very finicky about getting temps, soak times and tempering right.

I like 1050 - 1070 steel for chisels, punches, etc. when I'm not using old coil spring that is. 1050 - 1070 are bottom and top of MY preferred range for impact tools 1060 is my personal favorite. They're low alloy so respond well to eyeball heat treating but you can screw it up and have tools that break or won't hold an edge so it's good learning stock. Yes?

For the few times I've purchased specific steels I keep it in marked buckets. I don't need enough to buy full sticks so buckets works well for me. 

Paint weathers so how about wrapping it in Saran wrap to keep the weather off and still be able to see it? 

If you're buying tool steels you don't really want to leave it out in the weather to rust do you? If you can keep it under cover you can use all sorts of things like wire tags and sticky labels. The couple time I needed to mark MY steel I sprayed it with flat white epoxy (because I had it) and used a marker. I sprayed the whole length because a couple of the guys in the shop were rather generous with other people's stuff. One actually complained about it. 

Frosty The Lucky.

[BillyBones]

Just to clarify, i was not trying to advocate buying one steel or another. Just if i have a question i ask the counter guys. Most of the time the question is "Can you tell if that is brown or orange paint?" old eyes and all...

I use metal stamps to mark my material when i get it home, on both ends. If both ends are marked you do not have to worry about cutting the wrong end. I have also bought drops that are already stamped on one end. 

A word about the drops, many may not be coded. If they cut a bar (where i got my S-7, the cutter messed up about 100# of stock) in many pieces they will use a sharpie to write the alloy on it. At least at my local supplier, i am sure that each has their own SOP.

[Glenn]

If you mark both ends that is good until the first cut. Unless you are very careful to remark the parent stock you can loose the identification on the second cut you make. 

As to the marking, use what is available to you, that is quick and easy to use.  Give it a shot of clear paint to then protect the identification. 

They have paint markers available in industrial supply type stores, that can now be found in auto supply stores, HF, dollar stores etc.

[ThomasPowers]

I have a sample library that many pieces were marked with paint pens at the steel mill and are still clearly visible 20+ years later.  Of course they were stored inside.  They were then stamped with the designation. (Anybody got a use for a block 2345 stock? I mainly picked up stuff that was XY60+ for personal reasons.)

[FisherPriceAnvil]

I'll second MARKING steel. Steel accumulates in the shop and you'll have a hard time remembering what exactly you bought a year or two later. Was it 4140 or 4340?

I'm not a blacksmithing expert but I think 5160 is a good starter "tool" steel. I have some chisels, punches, and center punches made from it and they make good beginner knives too. The trick with 5160 is that you need to oil quench it, so if you're starting out that's something you need to think about, having a container of flammable oil in your shop.

Other good starter tool steel is 1045. I would look into 1060 as well. 1045 is what I hear a lot of people use for hammers. I've made an engraving hammer out of 1/2" 1045 and it was a fun project. I drilled out the hole for the handle because I was too scared/lazy to punch it out. An advantage of plain carbon steels is that you can quench in water.

[Purple Bullet]

I don't know where you are getting your railroad spikes, but your same source may have the arched clips that are hammered to the underside of rails to keep cross ties aligned. I read on another forum where these are close to 1060. I've made tomahawks and a few knives out of them, quenched in oil and tempered to 220 deg F for an hour. They seem to hold an edge good enough for utility use.  I know if I had gift cards to a steel supplier I would save them for a special project after gaining more experience and I would make tools out of coil springs, as Frosty alluded, or those rail clips.   Oh yeah, and don't be afraid to try tongs, especially out of railroad spikes or mild steel. I've made a few really ugly tongs, but still find them useful. Make your mistakes learning on junk and save the good stuff for when you have confidence in your skill.

[pnut]

 

On 1/2/2021 at 10:32 AM, Purple Bullet said:

arched clips that are hammered to the underside of rails to keep cross ties aligned

If you mean the ? shaped ones they are called Unit V anchors and have around sixty points of carbon but there's some other alloying elements that make them kinda tough to move by hand. I have one sitting here I'll post a picture to make sure we're talking about the same thing. 

Sorry about the wonky white balance. This is the worst camera in a phone I've ever encountered. 

Pnut

[Frazer]

The two that I normally get are these two styles (one of which is the unit V mentioned by pnut):

Those are just stock photos I found online since I don't have any pictures of them that I took myself. I find them them to be very handy and have tongs made specifically to hold them. Great for larger drifts or top tools. I have even made a knife or two out of them, a fast oil quench works quite well. As far as them being tough under the hammer I would compare it to a coil spring. However, these are much thicker material than the springs I usually get so that is a factor in how much force is required.

The track on the other hand, that is some seriously tough stuff.

I generally reference this BP for RR steel composition.

https://www.iforgeiron.com/index2.html/blueprints/original-series/bp0011-common-railroad-steels-r166/

Quoting from that BP,

Quote

Rail road clips (anchors) tested. It was 1050-1055.

 actually decent steel  fast oil quench and a temper of around 415 

spectrometer results from the rail anchor ("clip") 

C: 0.51 | Mn: 0.80 | P: 0.01 | S: 0.03 | Si: 0.18 | Cu: 0.24 | Cr: 0.07 | Mo: 0.02 | Ni: 0.07 | Sn: 0.010 | V: 0.002 | Cb/Nb: 0.015