BP0011 Common Railroad Steels

Glenn I was reading a REALLY old chemistry book a few days ago (those are the books that haven't been censored of 'dangerous' unprintable and awesome facts/reactions) and I like how both you and this book went into a detailed analysis of the constituent components of various different steels (in your case train-related). With all the additional  trace elements quantified and qualified someone could write an entire book on how the word train-steel can be broken down into 12,000 pages. Overall GOOD JOB, kept my attention. I find i'd rather know more than less about my metals. 

p.s: There must also be other detailed metallurgical data available on this site...I haven't searched yet as I haven't needed to but when it's time to UTSE (use the search engine. 2 hour newbie, still trying to learn your jargon) I will. 

Of course one of the problems people get into is thinking there is a simple answer to some questions: example what alloy are railroad spikes made from?  This assumes that RR spikes were made from the same alloy for about 150 years and all over the world by a large number of manufacturers.  I have wrought iron spikes and HC spikes and the Copper containing alloy spikes just from one area in the USA....(you will note several alloys on the list above based on US practices alone.)

In a living history group I am a member of one fellow once addressed this by saying "There were no Medieval Mil-Specs for items back then."

Which is why we advise time and time again TEST before you put the time in on what turns out to be a poor alloy for the item in question.

I did a Google search for rail anchor specifications and/or rail anchor steel . Apparently the material is 60Si2MnA I have forged a few punches and cold chisels from rail anchors. After quenching and tempering to a light straw color they cut mild steel like a hot knife through butter. Dickb 1/21

When is that spec good for?  Things change; the last spec I read had a range of values not a specific one, like 40-60 points carbon.

The only way to tell for sure is to have the sample piece tested.  That will them be the test results for ONLY THAT ONE piece of steel.

If you want a specific spec for steel, then purchase that specific specification. It should come with analysis information on heat treating etc.  That entire lot should all act the same.  If you like the way it preforms, quickly go back and purchase all you can afford of the same specification.

Since they're commercial links I can't post them but all of the suppliers I looked at list the Unit V, FAIR, and Trueloc   anchors as 60Si2MnA but the specification from AREMA does in fact state an acceptable range. 

Pnut

by BartW, Belgium

the greens are 16mm, the 18 are red. The steel in them is usually a variant of 9260; which is a great steel for tooling; mediocre for knives. Tough stuff. Doesn't want to move under the hammer. Don't forge it too high, it suffers from grain growth like O-1. Normalizing is also a good idea. Testing for cracks is also a great idea after forging. Not that great for tongs. 

JHCC  April 2021

Addendum: Doing some online research, I find the interesting detail that Pandrol e-clips are available in four different alloys:

1. 60Si2MnA (C:0.56-0.64, Mn:0.60-0.90, Si:1.60-2.00, Cr:≤0.35, P:≤0.03, S:≤0.03)
2. 60Si2CrA (C:0.56-0.64, Mn:0.40-0.70, Si:1.40-1.80,Cr:0.70-1.00 P:≤0.03, S:≤0.03)
3. 55Si2Mn (C:0.52-0.60, Mn:0.60-0.90, Si:1.50-2.00,Cr:≤0.35  P:≤0.03, S:≤0.03)
4. 38Si7 (C:0.35-0.42, Mn:0.50-0.80, Si:1.50-1.80, P:≤0.03, S:≤0.03)

The first two are fairly close to 5160, I believe, although a bit low on the manganese.

When I worked at Boeing, I could find almost any commercial, industry, aerospace and metallurgical spec on the planet on Boeing's on-line Library system.

But not railroad specs.  However, I was able to finagle a metal test out of one of our labs once.  I had them test the metallurgy of a railroad spike.  It was then I found why my RR spikes knives were somewhere between crapola and worthless.

Yes we keep posting the official specs for spikes and hammering on that they are supposed to be TOUGH and not brittle; but folks are still out there saying "It's a RR spike!" and using them.   I have a friend who makes garden trowels out of them---a much better use!

New guy here resurrecting an old thread with a dumb question:

What do people think railroad spikes would excel at other than helping to hold a section of rail in reasonable proximity to a hefty chunk of treated lumber without rusting away or snapping from metal fatigue between scheduled replacement intervals? Seems like a very high volume, very narrowly focused specific-purpose material to me. I don't think I'd try to make a butter knife or a brake pedal from one.

Here is the pinned thread concerning Rail spikes. Enjoy,

Robert Taylor

 Most people have little knowledge of ferrous metallurgy and so don't know that hardness and toughness are generally inversely proportional.  They often rely on "common knowledge" and so may be totally shocked when I tell them that Titanium makes bad knives---I have a Ti eating knife for camping that has a spot on the spine where I carved a curl of Ti  off it with a knife made from an old file trying to convince some people that Ti is NOT some wonder metal great for everything.  (I had a boss once that paid extra to get a Ti laptop shell; he was upset when I told him that Al made a much better laptop shell as Ti does not transmit heat as well as Al and heat is the Grim Reaper for laptops.)

I tell new smiths that the RR clips generally have close to twice the carbon content as the spikes; but my suggestion is to get a automotive coil spring with as few miles on it as possible and use it to practice making knives---if they have "beginner's luck" they will have a blade to use!

In defense of the RR spike I have to say that it is a way of practicing different blade making shapes and skills without expending better steel and folk like RR spike knives because they are obviously an item derived from a different item.  Also, you can usually sell them for a price much lower than a good, higher carbon steel blade.  With super quench I can get a RR spike blade almost hard enough to skate a file.  I have seen plenty of commercial knives no harder.

Can you make a "good" blade from a RR spike? No.  Can you make an OK/not bad blade from a RR spike?  IMO, probably.  A RR spike will never be as good steel for a blade as something with a higher C content but there are off setting qualities.

I have no ethical problem with selling RR spike knives as long as I explain their problems to customers.

"By hammer and hand all arts do stand."

Many folks have told me that they are just practicing knifemaking using RR spikes; then when they go on to better alloys they find that the better alloys work differently than a spike like they have different forging ranges and their practice was like practice driving a car by driving a horse drawn wagon.  OTOH they make decent kindling hatchets.  (Remember that hardness is only part of edge retention, the extra carbides play a big part too!)

Personally I'm a huge fan of rail clips though there are lots of good marketable things spikes are good for. Reforged spikes are highly marketable simply because customers can recognize a RR spike and see the transformation into whatever you're selling, RR spike steak flippers and coat hooks are popular.

What I like about rail clips is their nature. If you look at what the original art did you can usually determine what it'll be good for coming from your anvil. Rail clips are STIFF springs and make excellent products requiring springiness like tongs, pry bars etc. Rail clip products don't have the automatic marketability as spike products but they are good performers.

Frosty The Lucky.