JLP Blacksmith Teaching Center.

[Frosty]

The trick is to plan and use some frolic time and get it out of the way early. It's like in the day I couldn't afford to drive a "good" car. I found if I kept one broken down one my other one ran fine.

I think it's a Murphy's law thing.

Frosty The Lucky.

[jlpservicesinc]

Larry,  LOL..   Thanks..  

Yes that lamp is one of those animated ones..  It's a blacksmith/farrier at the anvil swinging a hammer on a hot shoe.. 

Great eye..  Was a gift from one of my farrier customers. 

The end wall has not been insulated for the last year or so. Might even be closer to 2 years.  

When we were insulating it originally I needed to order more of the insulation hangers and that put the brakes on that aspect of the build. 

This project is more of a A, B, C type of thing..  Or 1, 2, 3..     This has to get done before that gets done, and this needs to be done before that gets done..  Etc, etc..   

What usually happens is running out of an item, or needing something not stocked (hangers, electrical, etc, etc) and when this happens it wipes out the go, go, go and creates a "round to it".  

By the time the items needed arrive, I've rotated into another aspect of the build and then have to dead end there before rotating into something else.   

I'm very focused on one aspect at a time so when I'm forced to stop, getting started again is like moving a mule.. 

You can kick it, punch it, run it over but until it's the right time it ain't happening.. 

Sadly much of it (being the right time) is outside of my control.. 

So, as to the insulation and colder weather..   Nah.. not so much..   LOL..    

It's more the fact that it needs to be finished so I can run the electrical conduit and wires  and clear the rolls of insulation of the floor. 

For such a large building it's super easy to heat..   38R in the roof 29R in the walls, the main garage door is R29. 

With the duct work up it's going to be even easier to maintain a more even temperature.  Used to be 100F at the ceiling and 60F at the floor. 

I don't like working with insulation and usually get all suited up..  So having the little bit cooler temperatures does come in handy.  

The right side end wall was insulated this past April..  So it was nearly 2 years that it was left unisulated.  

Time goes by...  

[jlpservicesinc]

Frosty. I nearly bought a second manlift..  Grove 66AMZ with Duetz diesel.    Lucky for me it sold before i could find the listing again. 

Everyone I have ever talked to involved with the trades that use manlifts swear new, used, old they are pretty much electrical bug gremlins come alive. 

Ever since I got this unit running and functioning about once or 2x a year it has something that for all intensive purposes is pretty simple..   It's just a matter of tracking it down.  

It was stored outside for most of it's life before I got it so there is some areas that are prone to water collection.. 

Works a treat now again though.. 

probably one of the few pieces of equipment that I have no buyers remorse over. 

[gewoon ik]

All the manlifts at the shipyard all had elektrical problems at well.

The newer ones are even worse. Computers, no relais and more sensors. Ever faster green death for some parts

[Frosty]

I hear you, the only manlifts I've ever used  were company owned or rentals. Building maint. in our camp owned two so they might have one running at any given time. Supply had three. Happily when the rental place came to pick up the dead manlift I'd rented they brought a high lift forklift which worked a treat. The only downside was needing someone to drive it while I worked aloft or vis versa. I understand newer high lift fork lifts have controls in a man basket.

Hopefully I wont need one again.

Frosty The Lucky.

[jlpservicesinc]

So picked up a Buffalo forge model 248E

Downdraft type. 

Moved it into the shop today and ripped into it to fix some missing bolts, badly replaced fasteners and such.. Also will add a plate to the bottom back to account for age and wear. 

First time using the electric fork lift.  Worked a treat. 

[arkie]

Wow!  That's a monster.  Looks to be in almost new condition.  You'll love having it in the new shop.

[jlpservicesinc]

Arkie,  It's a great very long term wanted addition..  

the larger firepot will need a filler box to make it manageable I think..  I might see about keeping it filled with fines and crushed clinker to make the pot smaller..  Time will tell once I start to use it. 

On that, blew a line in the manlift so waiting on some hose part to make a new one.  2 actually.. I'll replace both lines while I"m in there..  The boom extension and retract lines are the ones I'm replacing. The retract line blew off at the end when I was retracting it while using the ground control.. 

1/2" lines so fairly stout in size.. 

Since I can't use the manlift I moved into more electrical work..  Over the last week I stopped at the electrical supply and picked up some 2" EMT fittings and installed 4, 2AWG lines for the 3ph power run down the side of the building. 

2awg will be good up to about 125amps..    As a supply line it will be oversized and will feed a subpanel down the other end of the building where all the Machining equipment is. 

[jlpservicesinc]

More electric work..   Now onto the 50amp receptacles for welders and plasma cutter.

I'm always amazed at how long it takes to get a run started.. Figuring out how to get it to start at the panel is one of the toughest aspects.. 

Nothing on any of the panels or boxes are a standard width from what I can tell that makes much sense. 

Once it's figured out it runs fast.. But up to that point.. Ouch. 

[jlpservicesinc]

I had to pull all the 2" conduit and wire back out.. 

I had thought I might be able to get in there and finished screwing the siding in but no go.. 

So pulled it all down.. 

This also allowed for me to adjust the strut up some and to clean up a little bit.. 

[jlpservicesinc]

Feels great seeing the Esseti welder and  the Thermadyne 1650 in the school and knowing they can be hooked up and used.. 

A few show and tells on the equipment just in the first bay side.   I've broken each section into 6 bays basically 20X20.. 

I can see the in floor fume extraction connections..  

I also ran some more wires..  Waiting on wire splices. 

[jlpservicesinc]

Got some great work done today.. 

I finished sizing the 2" pipe nipples on the Oster 784. 

Got the holes punched out in the breaker panels and the wireway..  3, 2" nipples for each panel. 

Had a huge influx of appreciation for the abilities I have amassed over the last 55 years.. 

Nearly everything done is for the first time..  Ability while lacking can be partially made up for with raw grit and a basic concept. 

Little more finish up and clean up.. Then I can start running 1phase power.. 

Sadly the hydraulic hose fittings I ordered nearly 2 weeks ago have still not shipped..  

So that is the only hang-up.. 

If the hydraulic fittings don't arrive within the time I get the wireway finished.. Then I will continue to put the siding up inside the building. 

[LarryFahnoe]

Your work is inspiring Jennifer! I can only imagine the look on the inspector's face and comments that they might make when they inspect your work. I'm still proud when I look at my vastly smaller accomplishment of a single and three phase distribution system for my little shop, and I recall the inspector saying that the work was better than many of the professionals. Here's to the good head on your shoulders and your raw grit!

--Larry

[Steve Sells]

Looks like a pro-electric install.  Dont forget the conduit straps, I cant see if they are there or not

[jlpservicesinc]

Thanks Larry,   

From what I've seen of your responses.. I'd say your level of work is very good.  I'm hoping the electrical inspector will come in and just nod..  LOL..   I'm sure he was ask me all the important questions..

He's a nice guy but like any of the powers at be.. Well.. You know.. 

And grit..   yes, yes.. 

 

11 hours ago, Steve Sells said:

Looks like a pro-electric install.  Dont forget the conduit straps, I cant see if they are there or not

Thanks Steve,

The straps are in.. Just can't see them on the 2"..   I'm pretty well stocked now..  3/4" several hundreds, 1" enough to get done.. 

My primary conduit size will be 3/4". 

stranded THHN/THWN in 12, 10, 8, 6, 2 awg for their intended purposes.. 

The only thing I'm short on is straight 2" EMT..  I need 4, 10ft..  

I have about 700ft of 3/4"  and about 70ft of 1"..    From what I can tell I'll use 3/4" for most runs..  16wires for fill.. I doubt I will even come close to 16 wires.. 

I'm going to increase the number of runs so can run more dedicated smaller batches of outlets.. 

The lights will be broken down into 4 switches for the left into 2 and the right into 2.. 

I'll put up enough strut so i can add conduit if need be in the future..  

I know what I have done is overkill with 400amps and dual 200amp panels with 42 each panel..  But.. 

Anyhow, it's going to look industrial for sure. 

Finished up the nipples, bushings top and bottom. 

If the hydraulic parts come in for the manlift  I'll do the lights first.

If not then it's the 240V 1ph outlets for the welders.. 

[Daswulf]

Awesome progress Jennifer. Overkill can be a real good thing in preparing a shop like that. It is good to have the options instead of having to add later. 

[jlpservicesinc]

For wire fill that was 16 of the 12awg..  thought I added that part in but it was missing. 

Thanks Das,  

You are right..  Since all of this is new to me, I'm flying blind..  

I have somewhat of an idea of how the conduit should look in my mind..  I doubt I can pull it off to the level of what I see in my mind..  but I'll give it my best.. 

It's interesting that I'm nearly complete on the building.. Seems somewhat strange. 

when I say complete..  I mean I'm about 90% from what I can tell. 

[Frosty]

It's always better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it. I've never known of a shop that had enough outlets or windows.

I do believe you have power covered. 

Frosty The Lucky.

[jlpservicesinc]

Frosty, I'm thinking 2,  2 gange outlet boxes per work station of 120V 1ph.  one very prominent and easy access for tools used at the bench.. then one off to the side some for electric blowers for forges and such. 

A 240V outlet at the benches would be nice but I'm hoping to have a grinding booth that can be moved around on wheels that will contain the belt grinders.  Haven't gotten this all sorted yet..  

From what I have seen on others videos that specialize in knife making they will mount 3 2x72 on a small bench. 

Moving the grinders into a portable grinding booth would help with dust and the associated mess and the ability to move it around would free up space when not in use.. 

Because of what I'm trying to do in the school keeping things (equipment) accessible and useable (tire benders, tire shrinks, old archaic items)  most things will live on wheels or pallet type platforms that can be moved around. 

I'm thinking for storage for some items they will live on a pallet rack system and only taken down when needed. 

It's an evolutionary process of figuring it out..  

I really enjoy working with the old tools but will see how much of a quest there is for it. 

On to windows..   I too love windows but not sure if I will be putting any in. 

[Steve Sells]

One problem beginners have with larger conduits is they forget to de-rate the wires used.  We cant just put 20 pairs of wire in a pipe and run 15 amps on 14 ga, it gets reduced because of the amount of wire in there. so we would end up running 10 ga wire for 15 amp circuits, so in the long run its better to run lots of 3/4" with 3 or 4 runs each instead, just like you are.

[jlpservicesinc]

Steve I was reading location can play in too. 

 

Mounting the conduit up on the ceiling in the middle of a hot zone.  It's going to be a lot hotter and derate versus down at the bottom of the foundation. 

 

Not sure if you see this in practice.  Just something I read. 

[Steve Sells]

since most of my work is in factories, we just wire it all  at 140 degree

[jlpservicesinc]

Well the fittings came in for the hydraulic hose.. So last night I made the new Thermoplastic (Eaton synflex) hose with the correct ends.. 100R8 -08 or 1/2".  

 Hoses in hydraulics use the -# system which is based on 1/16"   

So -4 is 1/4",  -5 is 5/16,  -6 is 3/8" and -8 is 1/2".   

The codes for each MFG are different for each fitting and hose series..   If you use Kurt hoses and fittings they, the MFG doesn't really like to mix and match so they spec the hose with a certain fitting..  All the MFG's do the same thing with matching products.

What this means is:    For every MFG and for the different hoses they make, there is a fitting type that is recommended for that hose and that hose only. 

There are many hose MFG's..    Kurt, Gates, Parker, Eaton,  Weatherhead, Danfoss, Aeroquip, these last 4 are the same parent company. 

Then there are also "MFG's" that are Not main stream that also produce their own lines of hoses and fittings. 

Rubber hoses are the most popular and come in different series of construction..  They use a rubber hose and some are 1 wire, 2 wire and 4 or 6 wire, non skived vs skived..    The higher the wire count the stronger the hose is supposed to be, but also the less flexible it becomes.  

For most MFG's they have recommended fittings for each type or wired hose..  You would not use a 1wire hose fitting on a 4 or 6 wire hose.   Nor the other way around.  

Nearly all heavy equipment that has hydraulics use the rubber hoses.. (backhoes, trucks, tractors, etc)

Except.. items that have to have hoses that are light and have to flex a lot..  forklifts, manlifts, etc.. 

These use Thermoplastic hoses which are much, much lighter with greater flexibility in all temperatures with the same or higher work pressures vs rubber hoses..  

Many rubber hose MFG's like Kurt offer higher flexibility rubber hoses which are also smaller to help cross over to the other markets..  Sadly they are still rubber and there are trade offs. 

For hydraulic rubber hoses they are crimped in special machines that cost A LOT..   The machine i have retails now for 12,000 with no dies..  And guess what.. You need dies for each size of hose. these die sets can be 600.00 each. 

I have an Eaton FT1380..  Took me about 5 years to find a machine I could afford..  It came with all the dies and I chose this machine because it can crimp any hose up to a -16 and from any MFG. 

It also has the ability to swage thermoplastic hoses with a couple of adapters.. 

YES, you read correctly SWAGED..  The 3903 model fittings as well as any of the older thermoplastic hoses are swaged on vs crimped..   What this means is one can build hoses in the field instead of having to go to a specialty hose shop. 

With this said..   Good luck finding fittings or hose..     I've found both but the hydraulic hose industry keeps tight raps on all of it.   Finding any information unless you go thru a distributor is a very, very long road.. 

When I first started looking there were very few resources for hose or fittings but over the last 5 years there are a few companies now that supply the end user..    Too bad about not sharing businesses unless a direct supporter of the website..   took me a while to find these companies and saved a lot of money.. 

You would think that Ebay might be a source for fittings..  Not really.   Very few of the fittings used in hydraulics are NPT..  JIC is even few on high-pressure hydraulics on newer machines..  ORB(Oring boss), FSO (Face seal Oring) and flange are the winners. 

If anybody is looking for more information PM me..  

The photo with the grey box is the swaging machine for thermoplastic hoses and you can see a few of the fittings I have acquired over a few years.. 

I got involved with hydraulics because of the Manlift and the miles of hoses it has..  

A hose blowing off hours is not only a huge inconvenience but a huge time drain..  So now I keep -4,-6 and -8 hose in stock with the fittings..  

I've learned to order the fittings ahead of time.. Since when they are out of stock..  They are out of stock everywhere.. 

Some of the -8 fitting for FSO are 25.00 each or more if I run to the hydraulic place..  1/2 that if I order them from the retailers.. 

[gewoon ik]

There is a reason why most hydraulic guys I know drive around with a van full of little boxes for all the connections.

Crazy sometimes.

[jlpservicesinc]

Yes it is..  Especiallly if you go to larger diameter hoses..   My machine will go up to -20 but I won't carry the fittings over -8..  

It's an investment in Convenience..   For regular larger rubber hoses I just go to the local hose guy.. 

Here most hose shops are just that..  Stationery store type shops.. 

There are a few guys who do road service but even they don't make hydraulic hoses on the spot.