JLP Blacksmith Teaching Center.

[gewoon ik]

We have these a lot. But for bigger connections better call the guys to make sure they have enough hose with them.

I think almost all hydraulic shops have at least one van with the whole set in it.

 

[jlpservicesinc]

that's really handy.. Do they have a service call fee? 

What i mean is..   Do they expect to do the whole job or just make the hose? 

[gewoon ik]

Depends. 

I used them in the field to replace hoses on escavators with assistance of a technician of the company I worked for. 

If you use the bigger service clubs, they like to change only the hoses and connections. Removing and installing is your fun.

But some remove motors, rams, ... and take to workshop for repairs.

 

 

[Frosty]

Of course there's a service charge if they have to come to you to replace of make a hose. It's just like repairing a flat tire, take it to them it costs X, have them come to you and it costs x plus another $100+ depending on travel time, hassle, etc. for the service call.

When I worked for a service station (cr. 1973-77) we charged a flat 1/2 hour shop rate plus materials / work for a service call if it was under IIRC 7 minutes drive time. We had a city directory in the service trucks so as long as we had a good address and cross street we didn't have to hunt. IF we had to hunt for the address or vehicle we charged shop rate plus. 

A hydraulic service call would charge similarly but in 21st. cent. dollars. A large part of the charge is for taking a tech away from shop work so the business loses his labor in the shop. 

Hydraulics are nothing to short cut, a leak can be extremely dangerous without showing signs until you have a puddle on the floor. If you're LUCKY a fitting or hose blows off. even at 2,500psi a gush of fluid from a 3/8" or larger hose, fitting, etc. is only REALLY annoying though if the machinery is in heavy use HOT. A pin hole on the other hand can be like running your hand through a meat slicer. 

I used to work with hydraulics on the drill rigs almost constantly, there's nothing like about .3+ MILES of hydraulic hose and a couple hundred fittings to keep a boy busy. Especially when better than half our work was during winter. Cold hydraulics get strange and all the fittings seep fluid. And do NOT tighten them when they're cold or the female will split when they come to operating temp!

Thinking about hydraulics brings back a lot of memories.

My advice for anybody plumbing a hydraulic system is #1. have hoses fitted professionally! #2 as much as humanly possible use the same hoses and fittings everywhere, go with the largest size required in the system and use it for everything. Over sizing hydraulics hurts nothing it gives the system a larger reserve of fluid and provides less resistance so the system runs cooler. All good things.

Frosty The Lucky. 

[jlpservicesinc]

Hey, I was waiting for you to share your experiences..  

There are no mystical or magical aspects to making hydraulic hoses..  It's not an archaic science either..  

If you use Kurt products you go and look up what the crimp specs are and crimp to those specs..   Every MFG has look up tables for their products.. 

Some of the crimp machines that are made by certain MFGs have simplified the process but using color coated items.. Use this crimp ring with these fittings and this hose.  

Like anything one needs to do the research and gain the knowledge to use any type of item safely..   Watching videos of people test cutting with Katanas is always hair-raising..  Scary to say the least. 

And yes, there are many, many dangers with hydraulics especially when ill-trained..  

2 people..  Go start the unit and push the lever until it bottoms out.. I'll then run my hand down the line to see exactly where it's leaking..      Not smart..  But accidents happen everyday..  

[jlpservicesinc]

Well, after some varying this and that situations I was able to get back onto running EMT for the lights. 

The Manlift was giving some fitz and quirks and needed to be gone thru..  

The manlift has 4x4 brakes that automatically engage and disengage when the joy stick reaches a certain position. 

The joystick is designed to creep the PWM on the solenoids to vary the speed.. Last summer the unit worked as it should but this fall, It was going from brakes on, to brakes off and full speed instantly.. 5mph is not that fast on a bike, but in a 27,000lbs manlift with 35ft out, its super fast when you need only to move a few inches. first time nearly threw me out of the basket. 

So cleaned all the connections, checked all the wiring with no results and then decided it was time to check the all ready adjusted Joystick..   And low and behold.. The adjustment at the joystick did it.  

Few weeks back I ended up with a flat tire that somehow holds air perfectly and now the joystick that is out of adjustment.. 

Gremlins..    thought I was punked on the tire...  Whos to say. 

Getting better at my emt Saddle bends..  The last one I did even looked respectable.  By the time I get good at them, I won't be doing them again. 

[jlpservicesinc]

Today was putting up strut to run the conduit from the left side breaker panel.  This will supply 240 100amp to the sub panel on the far wall as well as be the side that is used for the lights and for the power on the sides of the forges and workstations. 

The right side panel is powering the 3ph items and the 240volt 1ph stuff like machinery. 

It is interesting how long it takes to finally make a decision where things should go.  

Never having done this before and then reading the codes with exceptions..  it's daunting. 

Hard to believe this is nearing completion. 

Got the first run of conduit up that will feed the 4 gangs of lights.  Ordered the 4 gang light boxes too. 

I should have just enough strut if I plan well.. 

If not I'll have to buy another couple of pieces.  It's going to be very close. 

I need to order 3 more 12x12x6" enclosures.. That will complete the junction of the wiring going over the grey irons or upright frames. 

 

[jlpservicesinc]

Got the conduit runs started. 

[gewoon ik]

i'm wondering why you don't use a cabletray? Seems less work to me. 1 time to put up the tray instead of all those conduct with bends and everything that needs to be on correct length and deburred so the cable can pulled in afterwards.

around here, you see those often, you tyrap the cables to the tray and after you can close the tray with sheetmetal panels to protect them, if needed. 

In my shared workspace, there is also an cabletray with lighting attached to it. Was easy to install my new powercable from the main switchboard to my own switchboard (5G4 cable 3 fase + earth) so at least I have more than only 2 outlets).

[jlpservicesinc]

I wanted to run a trough..    My Master Electritrian friend told me adamantly to avoid it.  

And here is what I found: 

Sadly here in the USA code and such have limits on what can to be used.   and even go as far as mentioning it has to be UL approved and stamped or coded as such. 

Its expensive if you buy UL listed cable tray from what I looked at or found.  

I was going to make my own out of old walk way..  which would have worked a treat.. 

If the cable tray is installed then you got lucky.. 

I am not a builder, heating/plumbing person, nor electrician.  So all of it is my first time..  as is learning about all the codes involved.  AKA no real guidance.. Just told at ever turn " you can't do that". 

The largest percentage of "Hold up" is figuring out why, where and how things should or should not be/go. 

What this project has taught me is this.    

People will tell me " You can't do that". nearing 100%.   But percentage-wise around 0% are willing to help or even offer real suggestions on how to do something.. 

In today's world with all the information on the internet, there are certain professions that keep things under such tight wraps (so secretive)..    Often times I think it's steeped in money and the worry that the job really is very simple and they are worried if people really found out, everyone would just do it themselves.. 

As for the conduit, and runs..    Once the first piece is made,  it's just copying the rest of the needed pieces to the first. 

So 6 runs..   Just copy the first run..  If you make 90's remember to add 2 inches on each other piece running from inside to outside.. Or removed 2 inches in length if ran from outside in..   Which means if I have a bend on the side conduit and the measurement is 50 inches to the bend..  ON the next bend to match the corner and have space I need to make the next bend at 52" on the next run at that original spot. 

I'm terrible with the bender as I'm not used to seeing things backwards..    I have to force myself to turn the bar the opposite way of what I think is right..  Even with such little use I know my conventional thinking is wrong so just work at not fighting it..   As long as I do this,  the bends come out very nicely. 

[gewoon ik]

Ah ok, so because you have too, not because you want too.

I know the feeling you discribe. Have done sometimes otherwise. But also have burned my fingers. Installing cableglands on already installed cables can be $&%! job.

[jlpservicesinc]

Want to, have to..    

Those lines get very cloudy..    $$$$$$  

If one has $$$$$$ then anything is possible..     If I had to pay someone to do the work on this shop/school build I would not be able to afford it.. 

Want to..  When I started this idea some 35 years ago it was a want..  15yrs ago when I put this school build into motion it was a want.. 

about 1/2way thru for a lot of it, it became a "have to"..    Not only because of the money I have tied up in the place, but also because if it's not finished it's a space that would be useless except for storage..   

This would not work well because then I'd just sell all the blacksmithing equipment so then would not need storage.  LOL.. 

$$$$$$ is really the dictating facet for all of it.   

I am making progress on the electrical for sure..  

It's hard to believe the school is nearly complete as a building.   

There is something about doing "good work" that to me is very satisfying.  Good quality work. 

Running that 2" conduit took a while..  The bends are neither 45's nor 90's..  

Going to be stunning when I'm finished. 

[gewoon ik]

Thats the "fun" part with elektricity. You spend weeks working and people only see working outlets and ask, why does it take so long.

 

 

[jlpservicesinc]

It is an interesting point about spending a bunch of time and no one really seeing the results.. 

I suppose that's where the "luck" of doing it all comes in..   

What gets me, is how long something can take..      From inception or design (figuring out something since there are no directions) and then doing it..   Then having to take it apart because something that should have been there first (no directions) has to be put in before you did that next step.. 

Rinse and repeat.  Many, many times..    You think you get finished with something..  NOPE..,. 

Some of the most simple of things in a wood framed or brick/block framed building is a major undertaking in this steel building..    Because of frame spacing, etc, etc.. 

anyhow,  every step is a step..  

Spent all day in the manlift yesterday so last night I felt like a druken sailor..   For those that know what I'm talking about hats off.. 

[LarryFahnoe]

Conduit runs are looking GREAT Jennifer. A lot of work to do it to your level of satisfaction, but the satisfaction you achieve is worth it, well done! Earlier pics seemed to suggest that the small Ø runs were sort of splaying out the farther they went, glad to see nice tidy parallel runs now. 

I agree Gewoon, nobody but you (or someone with experience installing electrical) really knows the time and effort it took.

Soon it will be time to fill those conduits... 

--Larry

[jlpservicesinc]

Hey, Thanks Larry..    The long 1ph runs are so much easier.. 

I don't like to make scrap..  And laying out the 3ph stuff kinda used some of the scrap pieces.. Meaning cutoffs ..  That and not having a working knowledge or what is considered standards of practice.. (aka short cuts)

My budget  flew south..  Been putting in the mega time so a little tired.. 

Big push on the siding and insulation front..   

Having to get the siding up to continue the electrical.. 

First was to remove the old window..  This window was forced into the opening so distorted it some..  Taking the window out will allow for pressure to be taken off the steelwork and now things can be screwed together in their correct positions. 

I removed the 1/4" tapcon screws from the bottom frame and redrilled the holes for 5/16" and put in 6 new screws..  The 5/16" screws have way better mass vs the 1/4".. 

I then put up the silver faced 1/2" foam insulation into the bottom cubby and put the insulation hangers in.  Then put the fiberglass in. 

Taped it up and installed the membrane.  

I then installed as much of the double sided tape as I had which was just enough to get to the height of the white metal siding. 

I then installed the siding..   I decided that doing this job by myself is one of the more torturous jobs there is..  Luckily the panels are only 7.5ft long.. But holding and screwing them into position and cutting them is a problem.. 

Lucky for me this area is the last tough one with many cuts and cut outs. 

I ordered several different kinds of tape to put up the rest of the membrane..  From the Insulation company they are 125.00 per roll and 1 roll doesn't quite do 1 bay..  I ordered 2 extra last time thinking it would be enough and NOPE.. 

I ordered some stuff off Amazon.. will see if it works..   The insulation company now has a NEW England rep and he reached out after sending a message.. 

I'll know today if the Amazon ordered tape will work..  It's 1/3rd the cost.. 

 

[gewoon ik]

Still a lot of insulation to do? I thought you were ready?

You feel the difference? I closed the last piece at my home a month ago and it does make big difference (only 6m2 so figure, a tiny piece)

[jlpservicesinc]

Not much.. Just the top 3 sections of the east side of the building..  No great way to do them and no instructions..

With this, Even with the little bit of non-insulated areas up at the front eves of the building.. 

The school is super warm..    R38 roof and R29walls..  The membrane eliminates any drafts.. 

I keep it between 60 and 65F..   Good working temperature..  

The furnace is a multi-fuel unit..   

I burn "used oil"..  1/2gallon per hour..    When I'm going to be having the big door open for work inside the building while running the manlift I'll put some wood in the furnace a few hours ahead of time and then burn wood as it's a more consistent heat..     Even with the garage door open 4ft at the bottom the 65F is easy with it 35F outside. 

What the shop could use is an air handler..    This would be great to blow the heat down off the ceiling.  I have plans for a few filter units with the outlets aimed at the floor..  But that's in the future.  

Before I installed the furnace duct work..  I just had an elbow with a flap of cardboard on it and this was not very good at all..  It would be 45f at the floor and 105F at the ceiling.. 

I thought the heater duct would help and it does.. Quite a bit.. but..  The air flow out of the duct work is not forceful enough.. Enought velocity..  Its very subtle..  The whole shop is 65F at the human level..  So thinking of installing a larger blower..   This will circulate the heat up top better and make the whole system more efficient. 

I know there is a balance between too much air and the temperature rise of the furnace. 

 

[LarryFahnoe]

1 hour ago, jlpservicesinc said:

What the shop could use is an air handler..    This would be great to blow the heat down off the ceiling.

I wonder if a couple of those large diameter, low speed ceiling fans might be a good option? I don't know who makes them, but they have 5-7 skinny blades and are maybe 6ft diameter. I see them used in big box stores like Costco. They turn at a fraction of the speed of the standard household ceiling fan so you don't feel a down-draft but they must be effective at mixing the stratified air.

Is the window by the door gone for good or yet to have the siding cut out?

--Larry

[jlpservicesinc]

I like your thinking but can't do it..  The propane infrared heater.   Not enough room above..   And can't have anything below.. 

The air handlers are only like 24X24X by 36" or so..  Plenty of room and can be speed adjustable and contain air cleaning filters..   

The window will be back..  I have to order a new one..  So I need to reach out to a few window MFG's to get a price.. 

Last time I priced,  one place was 4400 installed the other 2600 installed.  

I don't want tempered glass..  When dealing with tempered glass that just right impact (barely anything) takes out the whole window.  But if I use plate glass it needs to be coated or protected.  Also many companies say.. Lifetime warranty and what they are really saying is the lifetime of the first window..  Once broken your on your own. 

I want a triple pane  60X65" IIRC.. 

On the metal side of things I'm by myself so holding the sheets up for fitting is tough and measuring for layout and cutting is slow.. 

With the sheets in and screwed down in a stable place I'll mark out the cuts and pull those sheets that need cutting off, cut and replace.. 

As it stands now.. Having the area blocked off from wind/rain/snow.. does keep it a tad warmer. 

[jlpservicesinc]

The tape I ordered worked a treat..   Will see how it does in the long term.. 

on installation it actually clung to the grey irons very nicely..  The stuff from Bayliner did not stick great.. 

I was also able to get the huge wireway installed with the 2" conduit so now can do the light switch run of conduit. 

Gewood Ik,  the space that is open at the top of the end wall is insulated above and sealed from the outside. 

The white membrane is attached at every possible point so is very well sealed.. 

Now that I have moved this far along I will also find some time to finish those very top sections.. 

problem is there are supposed to be insulation hangers to keep the insulation from sagging down in the wall.. 

On this end wall there is no place to put the hangers..   The hangers should have been installed when the outside siding was being installed.. Another point that was never mentioned..   So I have to figure out a way to mount the hangers.. 

I was thinking of mounting the hangers on some of the screws that come thru and putting a piece of foam on it and some gorilla tape to hold it against the wall.. 

[gewoon ik]

Thanka for the updates jen.

[jlpservicesinc]

Gewoon Ik, you are very welcome..  Great seeing you at the forge.. 

I was able to get a little more conduit up..  

I am not sure if there is such a thing..  A slip coupler/connector for EMT?  I keep getting to the end of the run with a box with no way of installing the conduit into the fitting unless I undo the box? 

@Steve Sells any ideas?  On fitting the very last piece of conduit before a box?  Working by myself and feeding in conduit is not much fun.  

This is where I stopped before undoing all the conduit strut clamps or the wireway..  

[LarryFahnoe]

No good suggestions Jennifer, sorry. For me it seems there is always some back & forth to fit the final sections of conduit. That last shot gives me the willies as I don't like heights. Thank goodness for your woman lift!! 

--Larry

[Steve Sells]

I would remove straps for a bit and let it sag, which will take up some of the extra length to allow you to couple, that doesn't work then getting a expansion joint may be the only option