JLP Blacksmith Teaching Center.

[jlpservicesinc]

Here is the bed frame complete and painted..  

[Irondragon Forge ClayWorks]

That's a solid looking bed frame. When it comes to painting, I'm the king of rattle cans.

I can't control the wind, all I can do is adjust my sails. ~ Semper Paratus

[jlpservicesinc]

Rattle cans work great..  Now they offer quality paint in rattle cans.  

I'm a rustoleum oil based user so buy it by the gallon..  I have the 9.99 HF spray guns and run the paint threw them. 

 

[jlpservicesinc]

So went and picked up this unit for the infloor fume extraction. 

7.5HP 3540 3ph with VFD 

It should produce enough vacuum and pressure in excess of what is needed so should be useful for other things as well. 

[Frosty]

EGADS! You can launch hang gliders with that thing! In floor exhaust? When you turn that thing on people will get stuck to the floor exhaust ports!

Please video the fun will you?

Frosty The Lucky.

[jlpservicesinc]

LOL.  I sure will.   If someone does get sucked into the fume extraction system I'll be filming for sure. 

Once I get things in place and running I'll shoot video of the different aspects of the school. 

[Frosty]

Even if nobody gets stuck video of them leaning into the wind trying to escape will be entertaining in a Marcel Marceau sort of way. You cold sell CDs!

Frosty The Lucky. 

[ac160]

Why did you go with a slotted bed over a solid bed?  It has been interesting watching your progress.

 

[jlpservicesinc]

I will keep that in mind should the sails of DVD's or Mpeg video disks become required.  LOL. 

AC160, thanks. It works a treat.. 

I went with slots because I hate cleaning out the back.  We have rain, snow, sleet, leaves in the fall and all sorts of other stuff that goes in when items are loaded on the back of the truck.  (dust, dirt, etc, etc). 

Now I don't have to do anything when it snows or the leaves come off the trees..  Really if all goes as designed I won't ever have to clean anything off or out of it.

Also I can use the slots for tie down areas for lighter items if need arises. 

In the Northeastern USA the beds rot out under the liners. So no moisture with slots. 

If I need to carry dirt or loose materials a few sheets of plywood will work and when done what ever is left just falls to the ground.   

There is still a slot in the middle which I have not figured what I want to do. 

Its a toss up as to using the ratchet strap rails, a piece of white oak with pull rings in it, or just more grating of some sort. 

 

[jlpservicesinc]

Added another grinder to the schools grinding potential. 

I was also able to get the last section of duct that came with the furnace up into position. 

I tried to bend the threaded rod cold but it's to hard and just snaps. So that will have to wait. 

[jlpservicesinc]

made some good progress today. 

Plan is to move the 3ph converter over Saturday. 

That will give me welding and such in the school in preparation for forge fabrication day. 

[gewoon ik]

what are the white tarpaulins doing? Not scared they being flammable? They look like the ones we used on the shipyard to protect us against wind and rain. They got full of holes quickly (replacing them every other day almost).

it is good to see you doing "small" updates; we see progress, you make progress;

[jlpservicesinc]

The white tarp like material is part of the insulation system.  

here in the USA OSHA regulates what is done on/in job sites.  

The white tarp material is part of the insulation system and fall restraint.    the system is known as Bay Liner or Skyliner depending on the company. 

Its a long story but was told by the metal building mfg to not do Bayliner when I talked to the insulation company. 

Well, when I talked to the insulation company I told them I don't want a Bayliner type system but wanted something semi finished.     They swore their Skyliner system was nothing like Bayliner, but it's exactly the Bayliner system.   It's a huge time suck to install and makes the building OSHA compliant for fall prevention measures.   So the workers who are doing insulation or roofing don't have to wear the harnesses with limit straps. 

The membrane increases the insulation ability so I'm thankful for that. 38 roof and 29 walls. 

The largest problem is none of it is easy to install. 

The stuff is burn resistant.   Not concerned with holes being put in it.  the metal siding goes about 9ft up the sides of the building.    Its all money..    Originally I could not afford the extra inside metal so wanted something that would be semi finished. 

It's a superior insulation system vs the plastic or vinyl backed insulation. 

https://bayinsulation.com/products/skyliner-systems

If I could afford it, I'd cover the inside with the 2" pink form board everywhere and then put the white steel siding top to bottom. 

[gewoon ik]

Ah ok. Not the classic, cheap tarpaulin. 

Here most industrial buildings are build with "ide" panels (ide beiing the brand). Steel with isolation (pur/pir or rockwool) and steel. All in one panel. Goed quick

[jlpservicesinc]

Here it's rather free for all in terms of design..   As long as the building has an engineered drawing with it the town as long as it does not violate any zoning they sign off. 

There are so many other better building types and construction.  

I suppose it has a lot to do with what is acceptable in the market at the time. 

Steel building here are not well known by the building inspectors.  

If money was no object I probably would have gone with a conventional real I beam construction with 12" insulation filled panels.   

The panels we have here are Plywood on both outside layers with foam glued in between the plywood. 

 

Fume extractor mount made..  It pinches the flange on the I beam.  The top is a bar so the angle can be changed or adjusted via wedge or shim.

the unit itself is 27ft long.  Currently mounted 11ft from the foundation block support. 

I can lower it or raise it via 8 bolts.   The angle or level of the main arm is controlled via the wedge. 

[Frosty]

Connect that to your new exhaust blower and it'll suck the stinger right out of your hand which will be a good thing because your welding shield will  already be headed up the duct and your gloves close behind. 

On a serious note, 27' long fume extractor should cover anything a person could reasonably want. Couple it with in-floor extraction and you'll be breathing clean air almost no matter what's happening in the shop.

I'm in awe!

Frosty The Lucky.

[jlpservicesinc]

LOL. 

This unit has its own sucker/blower.    

I have a bunch of air-handling equipment.   I have 2 Torit grinding air cleaners,  A commercial Hepa filter I'm hoping I'll use them for the Office. 

And a rather large furnace blower that I will make into a filter unit for the whole school. 

Between the furnace filter on the heating furnace, the air handler filter, the Torit units, and the in-floor fume extraction I'm hopeful to keep it reasonably clean. 

The in-floor fume extraction system might be powerful enough for some light vacuuming duty but that will have to be discovered. 


This is the HEPA filter I picked up. 

https://acsi-us.com/product/fa-2000-ec/

[Frosty]

Now you mention it you've been talking about the air handling equipment as you bought, installed, it. You've been working on this so long I forget the details. Am I safe assuming you have accounted for sufficient make up air?

The assumption is the only thing preventing me from worrying about the walls being sucked flat if you turn it all on at once.

I tease but I'm a fan of overkill and you got me beat by miles.

Frosty The Lucky.

[gewoon ik]

The building will be filled with air

[jlpservicesinc]

16 hours ago, Frosty said:

 Am I safe assuming you have accounted for sufficient make up air? The assumption is the only thing preventing me from worrying about the walls being sucked flat if you turn it all on at once.

Information on the school is easy to forget about.  It's been years now of work and lack of completion.  And the list is extensively long.  So it's easy to forget about things. 

For air make up: Summer time is easy.  Open a door.   Winter time is when I have been in deep thought about. 

I want to incorporate some sort of heat exchanger that I can intake the cold outside air and preheat it before it enters the warm shop. 

I want to install an air duct over the IR heater that funnels the cold air over the top of it before discharging into the building. 

Also setting up a cold air intake/mixing valve for air to enter the furnace return plenum this will help pull air thru the furnace but also heat it some. 

Heating or furnaces are complex.   If the heated smoke is cooled to much it creates condensate in the flue and this is bad.  

Last year I had put in some wet wood and it burnt but on the low side of the firing temp.  The water in the wood condensed just at the exit of the furnace and damper.  It turned back into water and made a mess.  

Black creosote liquid water..  Felt like a thin oil and smelled like liquid smoke one buys at specialty stores. 

So technically I was underfiring the furnace.  Ideally need to stay above the 250F chimney temp. 

At some point I will develop a condensing furnace and redo the layout of this unit. 

I love being able to burn used oil, wood or coal. so will keep these features but will change the firebox design and move more towards a gasification furnace with down draft design going into firebrick for heat storage then to sheet metal with extra ducting. 

The used oil part of the furnace will preheat the wood side while still providing ample heat. 

There is also a passive sun tube heater that could be used to preheat the air before coming in the building. 

So many options and possibilities. 

[Glenn]

The wood stove I use has to exhaust 300*F, (350*F is better on cold days), measured as the chimney exits through the wall) for the chimney to draft.  The stove prefers dry firewood 4x4 inches in size.  It burns best when the fire is to the front of this stove where the air enters.

If you have some unseasoned or damp wood, stand it on end in a circle around the stove so the radiant heat dries it out.  Then mix it little at a time with 2x4 or 2x2 size wood that burns hot.

If you have the opportunity, stack all the split wood from the same tree together, so it all burns the same.  Mixing types of wood means you must constantly adjust how it burns.

A cheap laser noncontact thermometer will help you with how a fire is burning by reading the skin temperature of the stove in several different locations.  After a while you can guess at the burn temperature by holding your hand out to feel the radiant heat.  

[jlpservicesinc]

Great information Glenn, I never even considered burning the same tree's wood together..  Makes great sense.  

The tree that was wet has been down for 5 years but in a damp area.   The moisture preserved the wood but with it being split (though it was cut to length) it was like a sponge. 

It was these pieces that were being moved up to the splitter when I broke my arm and dislocated my elbow on the mini dozer. 

I had thought I could get away with burning it even a piece at a time on top of some well-seasoned dry firewood. 


The furnace is controlled via the thermostat which includes the waste oil and the wood/coal side. 

So if the temperature is set to 60F when the temperature is reached it closes the dampener and the fire smolders and turns everything to charcoal.   Once the temperature drops down to 58F the damper will open to feed air again. 

If the dampener opens but the temperature at the thermostat continues to go down 5 degrees from the set temp, ( we'll say set at 60F and drops to 55F the oil side of the furnace will come on until it reaches 60F then shuts off the oil side and opens the damper for the wood/coal side. 

This is great because there is always heat.. Wood, coal, oil, biomass.. Pretty much anything you can put in it. 

the damp wood was a learning thing and during the winter with low moisture in the air I figured the wood would dry out a lot faster.   

I have 3 trees now that are standing dead in the area that is wet..  So will be interesting to see how dry they are. 

I'll have to make another wood pile for these all of the wood is 3 or 4 years old split, stacked and covered. 

Last year I burned about 3/4cord.     Year before I burned about 6 cord.  I have about 6 cord put up now with about 1000gals of used oil. 

here is the manual on the furnace. 

Sadly Yukon went out of business 2 years ago.   The EPA regulations of zero burn/condensing furnaces put them out of business.  I spoke with the guy before they closed and they said to redesign the furnace is possible and they had looked into it, but what the EPA wanted was dangerous so they did not want to be involved. 

Gasification is key now.  The new stove regs in the next few years will also be implemented. 

In Rutland, MA you can no longer install an oil fired boiler or furnace in a new constructed home.  Only Propane. 

oil_furnace.pdf

[Glenn]

Collect a bunch of wooden pallets.  When you get in wood, cut it to the size the stove can use.  16 inches is standard.  Then split it to the size the stove can use and stack the splits on the pallets and up and off of the ground.  The pallets are usually 48 x 42 inches so if you stack the wood 48 inches tall you have a cord of wood for every 8 feet of stack length.  

Stack only the best wood, straight and of the proper size for the stove. Put the twisted wood, crouch wood, gnarly wood, and knotted wood off to the side to be burned first at the start of the burning season.  If you have a piece of wood that will not split, not to worry, throw it into a separate pile. No use fighting with it, or stressing the wood splitter.  When everything else is split and stacked, return to the gnarly wood pile.  You purchased a chainsaw to cut wood, so cut the gnarly wood into pieces that will go into the stove and burn them first.  

The wood should be stacked so a mouse can run between the splits but a cat can not follow.  (I do not know how that equates to inches, metric millimeters, or metric centimeters, but you get the idea.) This allows for air flow to help dry out the wood.  The bark up or bark down discussion continues, with covering the top of the stack always being a good idea.

I have looked into stacking wood using the Holz Hansen method.  The concept is very interesting as a single stack can hold a lot of wood.  Build it on pallets to keep it off the ground and allow for air flow.

Stack a single cord of the best wood as close to the door as is practical. Do not use wood from that stack until the temperature drops to really cold, and the snow stacks up higher than you can shovel.  Now slide out the door (if you can get it open because of all the snow), grab some wood and slide back inside while you are still warm.  

No reason to think ice sickles will burn well, they will not.  Keep a couple of days of wood inside so it will warm up before going into the fire.

Each stove has its own personality and likes to burn a certain way.  Do not fight it.  Learn what makes the stove happy and enjoy being warm.

 

[Frosty]

Jennifer: Don't let down trees lay on the ground more than a year or so especially on wet ground. The "damp" wood that caused the condensation problems had laid on wet ground for 5 years? It was probably becoming punky and like you noted absorbs water like a sponge. Once it starts getting punky run it through a chipper for mulch, it's no longer good firewood. Maybe for the outdoor fire pit if the bugs are bad.

It can be hard to tell but if you can mark it with a fingernail it's starting to go. With practice you can hear it with a whack from the pol end of a hatchet. Wet sounds different than dry and punky sounds dead. You want it to sound like a baseball bat smacking the ball, it should give a crack. I walk around a tree with my hatchet checking for hollows, rot, punky, etc. all the things that can get you when you cut it.

Nothing to add to Glenn's stacking methods, I judge air space by eye but it should be wide enough your hand will fit between, flat. Bark UP, even if it's been pealed the round side is less pervious to water and the curve helps shed it. Split up allows it to puddle amongst separated fibers. 

We lucked into a 3 burn zone wood stove for good money as the store was liquidating an obsolete model. It's a Jotul and we've been heating with it for about 15 years. If you run it properly it hardly leaves white ash dust in the stack / chimney. Do it wrong and it really creosotes, starts with a haze and rapidly closes off the pipe. 

The secret is building a small wood HOT fire first to warm everything up and  this stove really benefits. I start it with 2x2 and smaller, a bundle say about 8" square does the trick nicely. Once the stove warms up increase the wood size a step at a time till you're burning your stoker wood.

We don't have the hardwoods you have, our main go to is birch though if you get it dry enough cottonwood is only poor. Then there's the ever present spruce, white or black, it's all over the place. There's a little douglas fir a little way south but who burs duglas fir for firewood?

We almost have to mix wood, spruce burns hot but fast and birch is harder to get rolling. Our stove doesn't seem to care once it's up to temp.

If you don't mind a LOT of cutting and bucking we have plenty of tag alder and willow both burn hot but it's small dia. 4" max around here.

I don't know enough about your multi-fuel furnaces to have an opinion. What I know about waste oil burners is they need to run hot and the oil needs preheating. Any more I'm familiar with if from reading Mother Earth News back when and some of the hassles the State heavy duty shop went through with the one they got saddled with. That unit is a nightmare but being in a State facility the EPA got to invent regulations for them to follow.

Like Glen said split and stack it soonest with enough space to allow air to flow. It splits easier green, especially frozen green. Yes, sub zero weather dries everything faster but warm breezy is better. I built out wood shed with a 2x4 deck spaced about 1/2" apart so air can rise through it. The roof is single pitch facing away from the general prevailing wind. The wind blowing over the roof lowers the pressure in the shed so make up air rises through the floor. It actually does a really nice job of drying firewood. 

I love heating with wood, I call it our macro-wave heater.

Frosty The Lucky.

 

[jlpservicesinc]

I am not selective with wood at all.  nearly all the wood in the pile was pulled from a place that the trees were full length on the ground for 3 years. 

The wet trees were put down there when the lot was prepped for the building.   It wasn't until the furnace was installed that I went in and cleared the place where they were all stacked up. 

Apple, maple, cherry.  Just dumped there. 

These are the standing dead.. 3 cherry and 1 ash. 

If it will smolder it's wood enough for me.  I throw paper, card board, in.