sidewinder81777 Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 I'm very new to smithing in general but quarter mokume sounded relatively easy so into my little micro forge a stack of 8 went. surface prep was a scrub with steel wool and an acetone bath, I did't use any kind of press just pulled the stack out with a pair of needle noses when they started to sweat and gave them a couple light whacks. The first heat the top and bottom quarters didn't stick so just did a couple reheats until everything was nice and fused. then ground the edges and just stared at the billet for a few days contemplating where I wanted to go from there. thought of restacking a couple times to bring the layer count up but dropped that idea and just shaped it up and ladder patterned it at 24 layers. should make a nice pendant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 You didn't make a clamp? Two pieces of reasonably heavy plate, 1/4" is minimum but don't get carried away. Drill 4 matching holes that bracket a stack of quarters in each plate. You clean and clamp the stack tightly and heat it all in the forge. The copper, nickle of the billet expands more than the steel bolts so pressure rises exponentially. I have a piece of steel I lay on my anvil thicker than the bolt heads and fits between them. I have a longer section of the same bar I can use like a punch from above. When the billet reaches sweating heat and soaked a few minutes I lay it on the bar and strike it from above with the other using a heavy hammer and moderately slow dead blows. By dead blow I want the hammer to just stop, bouncing can shear layers so heavy slow is more effective than sharp blows. Nice key fob, well done. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teenylittlemetalguy Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 that is a really nice looking billet for a first go at it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eventlessbox Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 That's really cool looking. Nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 clamps like this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidewinder81777 Posted March 20, 2019 Author Share Posted March 20, 2019 When i have a forge large enough to accommodate a clamp I'll use a clamp lol, for now with the tiny one i can barely get a tall enough stack of quarters for a pendant sized billet as it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 I just went back and looked, if you use reasonably thick plate and trim the corners from the clamp it'll lay on it's side in your forge with room to spare. Of course building another forge is a fine old timey blacksmitherly practice you know. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidewinder81777 Posted March 21, 2019 Author Share Posted March 21, 2019 Yes and it's in the works, planning on a 50cal ammo can forge in the near future. I figure that size should serve my needs for a good long while until I'm good enough to make swords. So yeah a good loooong while lol. And definitely need a heavier anvil like object or if i get lucky an actual anvil. The little piece of plate I'm using now is way too light for much beyond jewelry sized work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 Even a .50 cal box makes an awkward shape forge, have you done the math? They're only about 5.5" wide, if you use 2" of ceramic blanket and 1/5" of hard refractory the inside of the chamber would be about 1/2". If you reduce the blanket to 1" you still only get 2.5" of space. Large popcorn and cookie tins make more useful forge shapes. .50 cal ammo cans make good quench tanks, the lid is good fire control and spill prevention. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidewinder81777 Posted March 21, 2019 Author Share Posted March 21, 2019 oh ok the one i was looking at ia actually a saw ammo can, they're 6 3/4 wide. I was looking at this build Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 That forge only has 1" of blanket and no hard refractory is apparent. Bare ceramic blanket is a breathing hazard you really should seal for safety's sake and the durability of the liner. Is 1" enough insulation? That'd give it a 4 3/4" wide interior, adequate for small work, for knives it's cavernous. However, is it enough insulation? A number of members here with years of experience prefer 1" and have good arguments more isn't a significant savings in fuel or increase in temperature. If you'll look at the side of the ammo can where the burner is firing you can see the paint burning. It's not black but you can see the heat discoloration. Just because you have something does NOT mean you HAVE to use it. I can think of a bunch of good uses for ammo cans besides stowing my ammo. MY road emergency kit is in a .50 can in back of my truck seat. There are lots of steel boxes and cans out there if you keep your eyes and mind open. Don't get me wrong, I'm NOT saying don't do it. I just think there are a lot better alternatives available for less money. I know it makes Mike a little crazy but I REALLY like 12" of 10" single wall stainless steel stove pipe for a cylindrical forge. Standard drill bits and hole saw, and SS pop rivets covers the tool kit. The wall brackets make perfect legs. SS is a better IR reflector than steel so the outside of the shell doesn't get as hot meaning an insignificant bit of the heat is reflected back into the forge but touching it won't burn you before you can take your hand away. You can buy virtually everything off the shelf, 12" x 10" dia. pipe, two 12" x 6" bushing reducers, two 6" male caps, two 10" wall brackets. The only real fab you need do is bending a L bracket burner mount to get the orientation you want. Strip the chrome off some hardware hinges for the doors. That's about it, really. Sure it's pretty expensive compared to scrounging a: popcorn tin, piece of pipe or old utility box but it's light weight, strong as can be and effective. Just one of many alternatives IF you don't box yourself in. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 Anything above the door is usually "wasted space" in my types of work. It's nice to have the widest section of a forge right were the bottom of the door/floor of the forge is; as that's where you usually need the space to slide stuff in and out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidewinder81777 Posted March 21, 2019 Author Share Posted March 21, 2019 If you actually look at the photo album on that link which details the construction of that forge they most definitely satanited the crap out of that kaolwool. but I definitely appreciate all advice and I'm married to any particular idea yet. I just think it's a pretty neat forge lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidewinder81777 Posted March 22, 2019 Author Share Posted March 22, 2019 Etch or patina? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaxwellB Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 I vote etch. I think verdigris has it's place, but not on jewelry. Etch, then clear coat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 I'd etch and then let it patinate naturally if it will be worn against skin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidewinder81777 Posted March 22, 2019 Author Share Posted March 22, 2019 That's what i was thinking too. What would be the best way, ferric chloride? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 Hydrochloric Acid HCl Aqua Regia 3HCl + HNO3 Nitric Acid HNO3 Ferric Chloride FeC3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 Of those: Ferric Chloride is probably the safest---but it will eat a wedding ring; as will Agua Regia---which will also eat skin...Nitric acid tends to get you put on various lists here in the USA and HCL is probably the easiest to source---look at brick cleaners that list muriatic acid as their ingredient at big box stores . (a less pure form of HCL) Steve didn't list H2SO4, Sulfuric acid, AKA battery acid found at Auto Parts places. If you are not comfortable working with the strong acids; *please* use ferric chloride; but remember DON'T POUR IT DOWN DRAINS! (It eats almost every metal!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daswulf Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 51 minutes ago, ThomasPowers said: look at brick cleaners that list muriatic acid as their ingredient at big box stores . (a less pure form of HCL) I've picked up straight muriatic acid at the big box stores, so wouldn't that be the first go to over reading ingredients on brick cleaners? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 Muriatic Acid is old name for Hydrochloric Acid thats all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 Sure; I'm not fussy; I've seen it listed either way; but have had better luck over the years as brick or concrete cleaner. It's "an" old name, it was also known as spirits of salt or acidum salis. (And lets not get into alchemical symbolism!----not even on a Friday!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidewinder81777 Posted March 22, 2019 Author Share Posted March 22, 2019 Well i already have muriatic acid on hand and im not squeamish about chemicals whatsoever so do I dilute it or use it straight? And any reccomendations on time? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLAG Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 Muriatic acid is an alternate for hydrochloric acid, (HCl) (the plumber and other people still use the term muriatic acid). It is about a thirty percent solution of HCl and water. It should be diluted for most purposes. BUT, always add acid to water and not the other way around. Small amounts at a time. Adding water into acid will cause the solution to spit up. Which could cause blindness or ruin your handsome good looks. Just sayyin', SLAG. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 If the metals you are etching etch pretty much at the same rate---use a weak solution and more time to get as much differentiation as possible. If the metals you are etching etch pretty differently you can use a stronger solution and less time---yes this is a see what works best for you situation. And for fun you can look up depletion gilding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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