old style 250 pound little giant

[jason0012]

In the not too distant future I should be getting a 250 pound little giant- a really old one (1917). It is the old style with wrap around guides. I have no experience with the old ones like this, and have a few questions for any of you who have worked on them. Are the link arms toggled into the ram like they are on the smaller hammers, or do they pin in like the later ones? How big of a die can I squeeze through those guides? How much of a pain is it not having the vertical adjustment that later hammers have? If I dont get any response I guess I will find out soon enough...

[Hammerfall]

The design is the same. It sounds like you are going to have your hands full. You should probably call Sid.

[jason0012]

I am waiting to call Sid until I have the thing in front of me. I got to look it over about a year ago and it is all there, but at the time it was going to someone else so I didnt spend too much time on it. Given its age , I am sure it will need some work.

 

[DanielC]

Please post pics. I never see old style 250's or 500's.

[jason0012]

here it is. I have worked on a few newer 250s and 2 - 500# but this style I have only seen in photos. I did own a 25  old style years ago and assume they are similar. I will likely need a few parts from Sid, and hopefully will not need to rebabbitt bearings of this size.....

[arkie]

That behemoth is going to set off all the seismographs in the Eastern USA!!!  Wow, that's huge.

[Hammerfall]

That is soo cool.

[jason0012]

Behemoth? Why its just a little peanut. I wish I had pictures of the 6000# Erie I got to play with in Tulsa.

 

[jason0012]

Got it paid off Thursday! Now to find a place to put it...

 

[JHCC]

9 hours ago, jason0012 said:

Now to find a place to put it...

I'm sure I could find room in my garage....

[Andrew T]

Is that a wrap around guide, or a guard with dovetail guides behind?

[jason0012]

It is a wrap around guide like the smaller hammers -only different. I have found very little information on it. Sid responded to my questions today and he says they had trouble with adjustments on this model. I have seen several in folks shop photos, but nobody seems to want to comment on using one????

 

[jason0012]

Once I get it I will document as much as I can

 

[Andrew T]

I don't think I've ever seen one like that, the guide almost looks shop built. I haven't seen the one piece frame either.

[jason0012]

It is a 1918. I think it was the second year for the 250? The guide is similar to the smaller hammers, but rather than holding a front/back V, it catches the corners of a somewhat square ram.

 

[Wroughton]

I'm having picture withdrawal. Can you show us that lil guy again?

[jason0012]

I went to visit the beast today. I am clearing a spot at the shop for the old girl and caught a few photos. I thought I took more? Oh well, it will be home soon enough... It does have a crack in the frame, with a repair. That doesn't look bad. It looks like the dies are a tad short, but obviously have been used quite a lot. The whole thing is caked in grease, which bodes well for the bearings.

[jason0012]

The guides seem complicated, composed of several movable components. Basicly it is a double V guide though like a steamer would have used. It looks like a pretty solid design, but with lots of opportunity for collisions.

[Dave H.]

Power Hammers are like Harley's, if they ain't leaking oil, THEY ARE OUT of it!  Put a brake on that puppy & you should have a great hammer ;-)

 I think the dies just need to be surface ground to get them flat & the edges  rounded and you should be good to go I would lube it up good & run it slowly to see if there is any bad wear or anything & if it seems good I would run it as is. You might talk to your local welder with lot's of cast iron welding skills about welding in the crack. Bad thing about LG hammers is their cast quality sometimes ain't all that good.

Dave H.

[jason0012]

the brake is laying under my welding table, i have about 50 pounds of nickle rod, and amazingly, there is still green paint under the oil and grease

[BIGGUNDOCTOR]

There are much better rods today than E-99. Expensive, but they run so much nicer, and color match.

[jlpservicesinc]

Weld-mold offers a whole bunch..  If you contact them they might be able to point you to the right rod for the job..  I have a rod selection sheet out in the shop.. 

[jason0012]

The guides are Vs in four corners. The blocks are all independantly adjustable. A tad different from what I thought these early hammers used. I was pretty sure I had seen a serial number on it before, but can't seem to find it now. Any idea where it might be?

[CMS3900]

Such a interesting piece.  I have never seen a LG built like that. The ram guide is very interesting, and there is no adjustment at the cross head.  I have no clue where the SN would be on it. Usually they were cast into the frame on later models. The 250 is a "S" model so the SN should start with a S.  On my old style P model, there were also patent dates stamped into the ram.  If you end up having to re-pour the bearings one upgrade I highly recommend is replacing the babbitt bearing in the friction pulley with a bearing bronze one. It will last a lot longer, and that bearing is really the hardest one to pour because it should be machined afterward. If it were me, I would strip the machine down and sand blast it, then with just the frame go through the process to weld the cracks right.  My go-to rod for repairs like this is Allstate 4-60. You might find more stamping or info under all the coats of grease and paint.

[marcusb]

Any ideas what she weighs? What kinda foundation does it require?