Counterfeit Yellin Ironware

[Antiqueman]

I have been silent for awhile, but now a topic that may be of interest. An antique shop in Riverwoods, IL that represented a piece of iron work that was by Samuel Yellin. Fireplace tools. Marked Samuel Yellin. However when I offered them for sale, some knowledgeable people felt that they were not authentic. After a few months of research, I have come to accept that view.

The opinion was based on the maker's mark as not authentic, a conversation with the granddaughter and manager of a Yellin website, and some marks on the iron suggesting machine finish. What experience have other members had with counterfeit iron? The dealer is ignoring me after claiming I didn't know what I was talking about.

[WayneCoeArtistBlacksmith]

My favorite story, as told buy Peter  Ross, an antique dealer in Boston was trying to sell a piece of iron work to customers as a piece made by Paul Revere.  He said, "See there is his touch mark, PW" .  Peter says, "In the first place blacksmiths in colonial times did not use touch marks, second Paul Revere was a silversmith, not a blacksmith and thirdly, that PW is my touch mark and I made that spatula. 

The thing about this is that a piece by Peter Ross is probably worth almost as much as an iron piece by Paul Revere.

[jlpservicesinc]

Today is kind of tough when it comes to iron work and blacksmithing..  Since the techniques are the same and if the level of smithing work is good for the most part trying to tell the old from the new is very hard especially if someone took the time to make a new piece look like an old piece and used wrought iron.. ( I specialize in colonial hardware so everything looks old)...

Last year I did a job for someone and they showed me a fireplace crane they had bought from an antique dealer..  It was one of mine I had made nearly 30 years ago..  I knew it was mine as I remembered the piece and even the flaws in it.. 

Back then I stamped my work like any of the production pieces made in old shops usually with a series of dots.. My particular makers mark was 2 dots over 2 dots.. Some I marked some I didn't.  Anyhow, he thought he was buying a real antique. 

So, now I MM everything with my stamp if it meets my quality standards.. If it's not up to the standards I usually throw it into the scrap pile and it get re-purposed.. 

I'm proud of what I make so in 100 years from now I hope someone will come along and wonder who made that piece..

[Antiqueman]

Many thanks for the responses.  I have collected antique iron for 50+ years and have seen some obvious repos and undoubtedly purchased some.  In the case of the Yellin tools, They looked great, were represented by a so called reputable dealer as real. When I offered them for sale, a buyer was dubious, so I spent a lot of time on research I should have done to start with.  What convinced me that they were not authentic was the makers mark.  It was hard to find a real mark on the web, but after a discussion with Yellin's granddaughter, who immediately said that from the photo I sent,  the mark was not his.  The authentic mark was his name as a continuous raised name to be stamped into the steel.  What was on the tools I bought was the name stamped in one tool as individual letters and not spaced as might be expected.  I was able to find some offerings, on the internet, sold at auction and verified by the granddaughter, that showed the mark as it should be.  She also said that he marked each tool, not just one.  The handles had some inlaid cooper, and he did not work with copper in such a way.  Thus an expensive error.

[seldom (dick renker)]

you really have to watch out. there is a antique shop that i frequent and one of the dealers there had a spatula that was claimed to be colonial and the price matched. however on close observation you could tell that the handle was stick welded to the spatula. there was also a fire place crane that was referenced to mr yellen. it was there for at least two years and then disappeared. its really called buyer beware.

 

[ThomasPowers]

When asked to produce a high end replica of a historic blade I like to inlet the inside surface of the handle and put lead solder in with the date it was made.  Totally invisible until it's xrayed and then clear and bright!   Roman numerals can be used in visible places...

[Frank Turley]

Just to add a little. This letter opener was given to me by a friend. It is stamped, YELLIN. Sorry it doesn't show in the pics. I have since given it away to an old friend and smith. The stamp is in all caps and looks not too unlike the letters in my earlier sentence. No serifs.

I twice visited the National Cathedral in Washington DC, and got to look at Yellin's work up close. I was looking at a nicely decorated ring handle and had the urge to touch and lift it. When it was upside down, YELLIN was stamped on it right side up. The letters were larger than those on the  opener, but not all that different. No serifs.

I knew a Western Art dealer who specialized in Schreyvogel, Russell, and Remington paintings. When he ran onto a Remington for sale, he would have it authenticated by the noted expert, Harold McCracken. At one point in their relationship, Bill, the dealer, asked McCracken how he went about authenticating and how could he be sure. McCracken replied, "Bill, I've seen thousands of Western paintings by different artists and  hundreds of Remingtons, not only seen but studied them as to color, brush technique, subject matter, and so on. I've been at this so long that when I take my first look at a Remington and I get an OK feeling right away, I then take a closer look. If I get a little sick feeling in the pit of my stomach, I take a very close and long look and I am wary."

[Antiqueman]

Again, thanks for the responses.  The following pics are the so called Yellin tools.  I would like to hear your comments and thoughts.

[JHCC]

Well, they are very nice, even if they aren't genuine. 

[petere76]

In regard antiques, appearance isn't always the reality.  I would be guided by the adage, buyer beware. The fireplace tools may not be Mr. Yellins work but they certainly are good looking. 

Peter

 

[Stash]

My late father-in- law had a house full of Yellin work- 50 lf of stair railing, 360 degrees, 2 levels. Shorter railings, a Juliette balcony, 11 sconce lamps and a 5' tall 5 sided chandelier. I spent a lot of time examining and fondling it, but never saw any kind of stamp. The house was built in 1926 in a Phila. suburb by an architect  who had a business relationship with Yellin, and I found the job number in a reference. I believe Clair Yellin still has a copy of the prints. No stamp, but plenty of documentation.

Steve

 

[Nobody Special]

I was in the National Cathedral today, and I know I'm a bit late to the conversation, but here's one of the Yellin stamps that I saw. I believe this one was Samuel's, not Harvey's.  I looked over several pieces that were clearly Yellin and were supposed to be according to the sheet I got by asking the docents nicely, and I couldn't find a stamp anywhere.

Also, all the Yellin pieces had what looked like some sort of bronze wash over them. Didn't look like paint or linseed, and I'm assuming he didn't just brass brash it. Anyone know how he got the effect?

[George N. M.]

This is my first post in 3-4 years but I may have something to contribute to this thread.

30+ years ago I sold a dozen miner's candlesticks to an antique store in Central City, CO for IIRC $10 each.  That was a fairly significant order for me then.  About a year later I was back in Central City and asked my then girlfriend to go in and see how much they had marked them up for retail.  She came back and said that they were all rusted and were priced at about $100 each.  She was told that they had been found in a nearby mine and were over 100 years old.  I was livid.  However, after cooling down I realized that there was little I could do except never sell to that store again.  I figured that all the bad karma was on their heads.  Today I would report them to the Attorney General's Fraud/Consumer Protection Unit.  After that I started adding the year of manufacture in Roman numerals beside my touchmark on miner's candlesticks and anything else that could easily be passed off as antique.

There probably isn't as much risk to items sold to an individual but items which are intended for resale may carry with them a temptation for the reseller to maximize his or her profits.

Regarding the purported Yellin fireplace tools:  Either they are authentic or are an intentional attempt at forgery.  They appear to have a high level of skill in production.  About all that can be done to authenticate them is to contact experts who are able to look at them and be able to say something like the interior curl on the handles are consistent or not with Sam Yellin's work.

[jeremy k]

Even then - Yellin may have not actually done the forging - as his workers most likely did to his drawings - lots of leeway there on authenticating in my eyes. I could reproduce many things that look like originals if I wanted to.

[JHCC]

Very true, jeremy k. 

Looking at the pictures of the fireplace tools, it's pretty obvious that they were not stamped hot with a "YELLIN" touchmark, but cold with individual letter stamps. As Antiqueman notes above, observe that the spacing of the letters is inconsistent, and they are nowhere near on the same line. The font is different from the known Yellin touchmark in Nobody Special's photo: the letters all have serifs, while the genuine is in a sans-serif font. Additionally, the first "L" in "Yellin" is stamped OVER an earlier dent: there is no distortion of the letter, as there would be if it had been dented after stamping.

In short, someone took a perfectly decent set of fireplace tools and tried (successfully, it seems) to boost the value with a fraudulent attribution.

[Frosty]

I believe the color of finish is the lacquer yellowing. I haven't read about Yellin's work in years but I recall he lacquered his works unless otherwise specified. Colors were usually enamels bearing lead for durability. 

Yeah, not only did Yellin paint his work he arc welded it. Bought arc welders from the inventor who ran an iron shop in direct competition. Mr. Miller invented the arc welder to prevent the losses failed forge welds caused in made up work, gates, railings, etc. The contemporary article I read was from a trade magazine in a compilation of articles. That book was one of many that were stolen by person unmentioned. There was a lot of argument about the evil of arc welded joins and those demon fiends who'd pollute the craft with their greed. Articles got pretty vitriolic.

Anyway, within a year of Miller introducing arc welded products Yellin had IIRC 5 installed in his assembly shop and hired skilled welders. 

I bet Thomas has the book I'm talking about and can get the story straight. I'm going on my dented memory on this one but it really got  my interest.

Frosty The Lucky. 

[JHCC]

I was just reading a fascinating study of Yellin's French contemporary Edgar Brandt (born four years earlier, died twenty years later), in which was pointed out the enthusiasm with which Brandt embraced oxy-acetylene welding as a way to join together great numbers of small details in one large piece. Brandt not only benefited from the economic value of faster production, but took full advantage of the aesthetic possibilities that the new technology created.

Perhaps this has some relevance to Yellin being primarily retrospective in his design, looking back to the designs and craftsmanship of the medieval period (and certainly benefiting from the flowering of the Neo-Gothic movement in American architecture), while Brandt was more forward-looking, becoming a significant figure in the Art Deco movement.

[iron woodrow]

Why is samuel yellin?

I have had a similar thing to the candlestick story happen.

I made some items as a gift, a year later i found the same items for sale , as antiques, in an antique shop alongside actual originals, but mine had more on them!

 

The receiver of the gifts had passed away, and the family couldnt tell what was new or old...

[Glenn]

Yellin did good work and they want the profits from counterfeiting and then forging his name to their product to make it look legit.

Copyrights, intellectual property, inventions, etc have the same issues. 

[ThomasPowers]

Why dating as well as stamping your mark can be a good thing.

[JHCC]

10 hours ago, Glenn said:

Yellin did good work and they want the profits from counterfeiting and then forging his name to their product to make it look legit.

In this case, I don't think we're looking at deliberate counterfeiting. I reckon someone took a perfectly fine set of fire irons and added Yellin's name in an attempt to boost the value.