Looking to get into blacksmithing

[Hawgdirt]

Hey everyone, 

I'm sure this question has been asked many times before.  As soon as I get done building my shop I really want to get into blacksmithing.  My problem I'm having is choosing between solid or propane forges.  I've been leaning towards propane because it seems easier but I'm not sure.  Looking at different designs I have no idea which one to choose.  I look at the small firebrick forges and think that may not be sufficient but I have no clue.  I've also really looked into solid fuel forges but I'm afraid I'd spend more time making the fire then forging, is that true? 

[Ridgewayforge]

Welcome aboard! Good to have another succumb to the allure of the craft! If you put your location in your profile, you'd be surprised how many of the IFI gang is within driving distance. Grab a snack and a cold drink and read up on these forums- if you're sure a question has been asked before, put in a little research yourself! Look at youtube videos of reputable smiths to see how they make and maintain fires. I use a coal forge, personally, and I can get it to temp in about 10 minutes. 

If you really want some hands on experience, look us a blacksmithing group near you and go to a meeting or hammer in, and if you are serious, or want to know if its right for you, take a class and you will be much more able to judge whether or not you want a propane or solid fuel. 

 

But, do a little digging on here; Read the propane forge stickies as well as the solid fuel stickies, located at the top of the subforums for each, respectively. You'll begin to see, if you start putting some time into this site that there is already a wealth of information ready at your fingertips- you just need to do a little digging! 

 

Glad to have you and happy forging! 

[Frosty]

Welcome aboard, glad to have you. ditto putting your general location in the header.

There's a Forge section on Iforge with subsections about solid fuel forges and gas forges, these split down further into building forges, burners, charcoaling, even burning things like corn, wood, animal dung, coconut shells, etc.

Most any forge will do what you need it to once you know how to make it sing to your tune. I run propane virtually all the time, coal is too hard to get and charcoal is expensive or you have to make your own. Still charcoal is hard to beat working at a campfire or BBQ. Everybody needs camp fire tools you know. Propane has advantages and disadvantages. Brick pile forges have their uses but some serious disadvantages. I keep a box of soft insulating fire brick on hand for building special shape chambers or testing burners. The soft fire brick available to us here without special ordering is only rated to 2,200f which is about 500f below what my burners run without really cranking the pressure. In short soft fire brick lasts 2 maybe 3 firings in my forge before it starts crumbling.

Hard fire brick is a non starter it's rated to 3,000f but is a terrible heat sink and insulates slightly less well than 1' of limestone. the stuff will take the heat but you end up burning far more fuel getting and keeping at temperature. The thermal mass would be a benefit if one were cycling enough steel fast enough the heat being held by brick offered a faster heat time for the steel. We're talking commercial speed work.

There are a few good threads running right now, one about building burners, Burner 101 and another about gas forges, Forge 101. Mike Porter has been carrying those threads for the most part and I can't think of anyone who knows more about building high performance naturally aspirated propane burners. Well worth reading.

Oh, I'm the long winded guy who builds old rusty pickup truck burners because they're fast, easy and work reasonably well.

Frosty The Lucky.

 

[Dave51B]

 Hawgdirt, Ditto on what has been said. I'll just add....it will make a huge difference in forge size and design, depending on your location and what you want to make. Do you want to make pixie ladles from horseshoe nails or a pic axe from RR rail? Do you have access to good smithing coal, or a good propane supplier? Enjoy the ride.......      Life is Good           Dave

[Hawgdirt]

I'm from Blanchard,  LA I'll be sure to put that in my profile.  My dream is to be able to make custom axes for people like John neeman or gransfors bruks.  For now I just want to make axes,  knifes and other general tools.  And yes I just found out we do have a blacksmithing supply shop in town called Emerson. 

[ThomasPowers]

You know my wife and I own both a minivan and a pickup truck as neither one is good at what the other is....

If you are learning basic smithing from ground zero; a good propane forge is a lot easier to work with as you don't have to learn working the fire at the same time.

[Charles R. Stevens]

You really only need to bring about 6" to forging temp at a time, and for axes, and most tools even that small a heat zone will do to heat treat.

the two major advantages of gassers is that propaine is easy to come buy and the temp is easaly adjustable so inattention dosnt lead to burnt steel.

Disadvantage is that the liners are susceptible to damage from fluxes and if they are not designed properly and the right materials used they are difficult to bring to welding heat.  

This is not to say that coal or charcoal do not have disadvantages either, typicaly solid fuel forge's are easer to coble together, as one doesn't need to sorce propaine regulators, fuel gas rated hose and refractory insulation.

But some places coal in not easy to sorce (and a moments inattention can lead to burning up your stock) and it can give off disagreeable smoke. 

Alas for charcola, unless you are making your own, you endeavor to maintain a small fire and you do not apply more than just enugh air it can be expensive to operate. Tho burning construction scrap and transfusing embers to your forge works very well. 

[Hawgdirt]

My biggest obstacle I'm having right now, and it's very stupid I think.  I feel like my first forge should look like a traditional brick forge you see on TV. I realize that I do not need something extravagant like that as I don't even completely understand how a forge works.  I was leaning towards propane as I didn't know I had a blacksmith supply store in town.  They sell 50lb bag for $35 is that reasonable?  Would 50 lb last awhile? I suppose a brake drum forge would be good for a beginner?  I've seen hundreds of videos on making them,  any in particular yall recommend? 

[olfart]

Hawgdirt, you're just down the road from me, and $35 for a 50 pound bag is highway robbery. I have two coal forges and a small propane forge you can look at for comparison.

Third Saturday of every month, Four States Iron Munchers meet just west of Texarkana at 2:00 PM (1:00 PM if you want to eat lunch). PM me for instructions.

 

[Frosty]

You're falling into one of those common traps new folk dig themselves. You're adding a feature to equipment that makes ZERO difference to a tool. Worse yet you're ding it for a philosophical reason. Learn the craft THEN go decorator blacksmith shop if that's what you want. However there's no good reason to limit yourself with pointless conditions. People built from brick, rocks, dirt, sticks and mud because that's what they had or could afford. My shop is red iron steel building on poured concrete. some of my tools and equipment is over 100 years old and it works even though I painted it.

The only really important question you need to ask yourself is what's more important searching for those elusive Perfect tools or blacksmithing. You don't need to have either or, there's nothing wrong with having several different types and size forges, most of us have several collecting dust mostly because we tried to build a perfect one before we knew how they work and what we needed. Like I say, common beginner trap.

Frosty The Lucky.

[Hawgdirt]

I completely agree with you,  I know my idea of a forge is not of importance right now.  And I'm sure some of this will come with experience but I have no clue where to get materials.  Like a old brake drum,  no clue where to find one.  And I've seen videos of smiths making axes from a chunk of steel welded on a stick.  Do you buy that type of stuff from the internet? And before I get my hopes up for one day being able to call myself a competent blacksmith,  is this a skill you can learn on your own?  No apprentice programs where I live.  And can anyone recommend a good book for beginners to learn about blacksmithing? 

[John McPherson]

You are right, your questions have been asked, and answered, many times before. Please take a few minutes hours and actually read the stickys at the top of each heading, and put your location in your profile.

There are no apprentice programs for blacksmithing. There is a national group, ABANA, with state and regional chapters, and even local sub-groups. Somebody is near you. 

There are also dozens of places to take classes in blacksmithing, basic to advanced.

 

[John B]

3 hours ago, Hawgdirt said:

 And can anyone recommend a good book for beginners to learn about blacksmithing? 

 Welcome to the site,

The Blacksmiths Craft, free download from here  http://www.hlcollege.ac.uk/Downloads/cp_blacksmith.html

Wrought Ironwork A manual of instruction for Craftsmen, free download from here http://www.hlcollege.ac.uk/Downloads/cp_wrought.html

Others on that site also of interest, but they are the basic blacksmiths reference books, Others will also make recommendations of what their choice is.

Have fun and enjoy

[j.morse]

Hawg, personal message sent.

[Frosty]

Check out Charles Stevens' posts about side blast forges, all you need is a box of dirt a piece of smallish pipe, say 3/4" - 1" and a blow drier and you're up and forging with whatever fuel you have on hand. No fooling a side blast is probably the most versatile solid fuel forge around.

Hook up with some of the guys in your area, you'll be stylin in no time.

Frosty The Lucky.

[Hawgdirt]

Been doing some reading and decided on a side blast forge.  I've searched for Glenn's 55 side blast forge but all the links I find are not working for me.  Was wondering if anyone had a working link to the BP. 

[wpearson]

google "55 side blast forge"

[Charles R. Stevens]

If that dost find it ask Glenn to unlock it and send it to you.

[Frosty]

the search engine provided by the company that provides the site operating software is as lame as the OS itself. Google/Yahoo/whatever, your search and include Iforgeiron in the terms works a whole lot better.

Frosty The Lucky.

[JHCC]

The "Box of Dirt" thread is enormously informative: http://www.iforgeiron.com/topic/44842-just-a-box-of-dirt-or-a-simple-side-blast-forge/

[WL smith]

Welcome and jump in with both feet! You have been given a lot of information. Many of us started before internet info and have made it into blacksmithing. You can too. Search out a local group they can steer you into the right direction. Welcome and happy hammering!

[Lou L]

Since I've recently undergone the process you are experiencing let me offer insights on what I learned:

   It is true that it's more important that you just get forging as quickly as possible.

   It is also true that newbie idealism can trick you into making choices that actually set you back simply because you wanted something cool or cutting edge.

   However, it is also quite important that you are proud of the equipment you have and that it works well.  Let me offer the advice I give to prospective new guitar players when they are asking about what guitar they should buy.  I always tell them not to buy the cheapest starter guitar for one reason.  They need to spend some time picking a guitar that speaks to them.  They need to love it. If they don't look at it with a touch of reverence each time they take it out to play they are likely to stop taking it out.  Millions of homes are littered with dusty, unused starter guitars because their owners didn't enjoy using them.

 

Forges are similar.  If you have one that doesn't work well or is inconvenient to you or undermines your efforts then you will be highly unlikely to continue smithing.  So try to find a balance.  Determine what fuel will be easily available, decide how much you are willing to spend and then make something you are excited to try.  I went with a water cooled side blast because I wanted to force myself to learn to weld well enough to make a water tank that didn't leak like a sieve.  Plus I thought it was cool.  Because I learned a lot in making it and love using it...it was the right choice for me.

[Charles R. Stevens]

I would agree with Lou, with one caveat, solid fuel forges are not complicated devices, but there are a few things to get right. Building a "sand castle" will alow some experimentation. Before you jump off in the deap end. Even the gas guys resort to "brick pile" forges to to get an idea what works and dosnt on the cheap. 

Once you can take an idea from paper or your own head and make it work, then you can duplicate it in a more artistic and durable form than a hole in a box. 

[Lou L]

Good point from Charles!  "On the cheap" is critical.  Don't spend your wad on some cool idea you read about or even something you saw I person once.  Go with cheap first.  I was fortunate to be able to get the parts to build my forge for cheap or free.  My design was based on the stuff I managed to scrounge.  Had I the time, money and inclination to make another forge I would spend more and do it a bit differently.  Fortunately I was lucky or smart enough to design mine to be upgraded and modified so changes are coming...when I can get the parts cheap.

 

I'd be pretty turned off if I spent a load of money on my forge and still had the air problems I have.  I'm still looking for my Goldilocks blower...

[Frosty]

2 hours ago, Lou L said:

I'd be pretty turned off if I spent a load of money on my forge and still had the air problems I have.  I'm still looking for my Goldilocks blower...

They had blow driers when Goldilocks was hanging with the dwarves? Wow, learn something new every day!

Frosty The Lucky.