MadsRC Posted September 3, 2016 Share Posted September 3, 2016 I was wondering how people mark steel when they are working it? Using a pencil or marker doesn't work as it's burned away. Scratching the metal doesn't seem to work, as I can't see the scratches on the hot steel. The only thing I've found that works is punching a small denty, however, this isn't pretty, and won't work for longer lines. Measuring doesn't really do any good when you can't mark What do you use, and what did the people of old use? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Cochran Posted September 3, 2016 Share Posted September 3, 2016 Silver pencils show up for a little while at heat. As long as its not a welding heat I haven't had any trouble still seeing it. Several people I hear use a center punch on different faces depending on the project. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadsRC Posted September 3, 2016 Author Share Posted September 3, 2016 Actually found this while researching. Seems like soapstone crayons will still be visible up to 2000C Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwistedCustoms Posted September 3, 2016 Share Posted September 3, 2016 I use soapstone because I always have them around but regular chalk board chalk works for me at forging temp also Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Cochran Posted September 3, 2016 Share Posted September 3, 2016 I don't have good results with soap stone for some reason. I've never thought of trying regular chalk, I might have to step some of my sons sidewalk chalk just to test it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwistedCustoms Posted September 3, 2016 Share Posted September 3, 2016 3 minutes ago, Michael Cochran said: I don't have good results with soap stone for some reason. I've never thought of trying regular chalk, I might have to step some of my sons sidewalk chalk just to test it. Those big sidewalk pieces could be a pain, the school supply isle in WallyWorld has white chalk board chalk for under a buck. I use a worn out file to sharpen chalk and soapstone to a wicked point. It never gets mixed up with my good files because its the white one hanging on a nail above a pile of chalk dust. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted September 3, 2016 Share Posted September 3, 2016 Soapstone doesn't like oil or water, it turns transparent. I've also been wondering how long we'll be able to buy real soapstone, it's the non crystal form of asbestos so the dust may be a breathing hazard. Talcum powder has been outlawed and shyster lawyers are running nonstop adds on TV to try getting a slice of class action suits. I figure soap stone isn't long for the welding shop shelves. Perhaps if you have soapstone that isn't visible at heat on steel it may be the new and improved (not really) soapstone. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickOHH Posted September 3, 2016 Share Posted September 3, 2016 I like the center punch , leaves a physical indicator. If I'm hot cutting or fullering a longer line you can just mark either end , maybe throw a couple light ones on the middle to reference where center is. The more you do it though the easier it gets to stay on track , take your time and make sure you are centered and start slowly then if your off you can move it without serious marks or damage. Practice practice practice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwistedCustoms Posted September 3, 2016 Share Posted September 3, 2016 It figures Frosty. How did we ever survive our youth without bicycle helmets and lawyers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted September 3, 2016 Share Posted September 3, 2016 18 minutes ago, TwistedCustoms said: It figures Frosty. How did we ever survive our youth without bicycle helmets and lawyers! I don't know. I made beef stew last night, they has soup bones on sale. Displayed prominently on the bag of new potatoes was "Gluten and cholesterol free!" Remember when milk was good for you? I keep seeing public service announcements about avoiding high sugar drinks, treats, etc. for the kids. I agree with that part but give them skim milk instead? Children need the fat and cholesterol to grow! Maybe we didn't survive our youth and weren't good enough to pass the pearly gates? Fad science and shyster lawyers, blek. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwistedCustoms Posted September 4, 2016 Share Posted September 4, 2016 30 minutes ago, Frosty said: I don't know. I made beef stew last night, they has soup bones on sale. Displayed prominently on the bag of new potatoes was "Gluten and cholesterol free!" Remember when milk was good for you? I keep seeing public service announcements about avoiding high sugar drinks, treats, etc. for the kids. I agree with that part but give them skim milk instead? Children need the fat and cholesterol to grow! Maybe we didn't survive our youth and weren't good enough to pass the pearly gates? Fad science and shyster lawyers, blek. Frosty The Lucky. It hadn't yet occurred to me that maybe I didn't survive jumping that creek on my bike back in 75 and this new world order I'm experiencing now is my punishment for trying one of Pops cigarettes behind the wood shed. It would explain a lot. I suspect that every generation feels something close to this when they realize the world is changing much faster than they like but I swear there are times when I feel like the social fabric is disintegrating at an exponential rate. I'm not a luddite, I like technology to the extent it actually improves my quality of life and I acknowledge there has been a lot of change for the better in my lifetime. I would however put all the lawyers, cell phones, bad music, and self-important instant gratification crowd in a giant sack and drop it to the bottom of the sea in exchange for a steady supply of soapstone and chalk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLAG Posted September 4, 2016 Share Posted September 4, 2016 Soapstone is readily available at art supply stores. It is a soft rock that carves easily. As such, it is widely popular with stone carvers. As far as I know, It has not been banned yet. I cannot fathom how the authorities could successfully ban it. It is widely found in mineral deposits in North America. (heck we used to pick it up off the ground in Eastern Quebec). A small block of the mineral should last, a smith, for a lifetime. There would probably be enough to pass on to one's survivors. Be sure to stipulate the soapstone in your will. Your next of kin will thank you for it. This whole soapstone concern is passing strange. I think "Big Brother" is concerned with the trace amounts of asbestos fibers in the mineral. They constitute a minute percentage. But YOU NEVER KNOW we could all DIE!. Regards to all, SLAG. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arkie Posted September 4, 2016 Share Posted September 4, 2016 I think we'll all be just fine with soapstone so long as we don't snort it or eat it...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Cochran Posted September 4, 2016 Share Posted September 4, 2016 2 hours ago, TwistedCustoms said: Those big sidewalk pieces could be a pain, the school supply isle in WallyWorld has white chalk board chalk for under a buck. I use a worn out file to sharpen chalk and soapstone to a wicked point. It never gets mixed up with my good files because its the white one hanging on a nail above a pile of chalk dust. I just meant I'd use a piece to try before I go buying a box just for the shop. I'm too cheap to buy something that I dont know will work. I always try before I buy if it's at all possible and I blame that on not having much as a kid, you learn to make more informed and thrifty decisions when you can't afford to waste money. That may also be part of why I bring home scrap steel every time I find some. I also have a bad habit of picking up pieces of coal I see mixed in the gravel driveways around here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted September 4, 2016 Share Posted September 4, 2016 I'm sure Oomok and Plegg felt the same way when those crazy kids started tying sharp rocks to straight sticks when everybody knows burning the end in the fire and sharpening it on a rough stone worked just fine. I think we're in that handbasket unless we adapt and I'm too old to start texting. Heck the only app I want for my flip phone is the one you can set to stun or disintegrate that lawyer who won't dim his blankety blank stupid BRIGHT BLUE HEADLIGHTS! Slag: Are they really still selling soapstone at art supply stores? I haven't checked in years but I live about 20 miles from Soapstone Road and can go mine my own. Soapstone carving is old Native Alaskan art, you can almost carve it with a sharp stick. The downside is how many soapstone carvers don't live 50 years. Mesotheleoma has been killing Native Alaskan artists for thousands of years. The more recent generation has started using respirators and they're doing fine. Anybody out there cutting and polishing jade? The only difference between jade and asbestos, soapstone, talc, etc. is the water content. Got a dust mask? How about a beard? Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLAG Posted September 4, 2016 Share Posted September 4, 2016 Canadian Inuit rarely lived to age fifty, about four generations back and earlier, and the cancer mesothelioma, ( a cancer of the lung outer sac) was rare or more probably unheard of before 1950, in northern Canada Soapstone carving is an ancient craft. It was done on a casual basis for thousands of years. (even the Cape Dorset and the Thule Inuit cultures carved pieces in the very distant past). They did so to pass the time when the weather got savage, forcing them to hunker down, often for days. In ancient times the carvings were created and then abandoned, as the people had to travel light, surviving on the very edge of existence. Some of these carvings are discovered, from time to time and are very important cultural relics. Inuit carving got discovered, by the wider art public, in the 1950's. Intense carving really got started in the early 1960's. From then on, some Inuit got into carving full time. I am not aware of any recent mesothelioma epidemic in the Canadian high Arctic (& I have not heard about the same in Alaska, but I'll take Frosty's word for it.) Mesothelioma was very common for workers mining, producing, &/or using asbestos for a span of many years. It takes years to develop, just like lung cancer. Incidentally, Quebec province was one of the biggest sources for asbestos on the world, and where you find asbestos there is soapstone nearby. Yes soapstone is still being sold to sculptors. I would get it at a store in Montreal, namely Omer Deserres. Inc. There are hundreds of soapstone suppliers on the net. I just checked it, to make sure. For example try http://www.blackpearlsoapstone.com/. As for soapstone road, Frosty, I am very jealous. I will not be finding much soapstone here in Missouri, and, alas, the road & you are very far away. Oh by the way, please do not zap this old retired patent lawyer Regards, SLAG. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olfart Posted September 4, 2016 Share Posted September 4, 2016 10 hours ago, Michael Cochran said: I just meant I'd use a piece to try before I go buying a box just for the shop. I'm too cheap to buy something that I dont know will work. I always try before I buy if it's at all possible and I blame that on not having much as a kid, you learn to make more informed and thrifty decisions when you can't afford to waste money. That may also be part of why I bring home scrap steel every time I find some. I also have a bad habit of picking up pieces of coal I see mixed in the gravel driveways around here. If you spring for a box of regular chalk for under a dollar and find it doesn't work, your wife will be happy to add it to her sewing supplies for marking fabric. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gergely Posted September 4, 2016 Share Posted September 4, 2016 Hi, I stopped marking the actual spot for hot work. Every method I've tried failed my eyes or just took too long to recognize. Now I mark the workpiece laying on the anvil, the spot to be worked goes to the far edge of the anvil and a chalk mark goes to the spot laying on the close-to-me edge of the anvil. There is a 5 1/2" space between the two edges so no way the mark could vanish. When hot I hold the workpiece over the anvil's edges for a sec and memorize where the working spot is. Of course there are cases when this can't be applied (stock being too short, work is done elsewhere then the anvil), but mainly it works. Bests Gergely Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted September 4, 2016 Share Posted September 4, 2016 I mark my anvil sides also have a RR track marked as a ruler with rotary tool, and filled in the marks with White Out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwistedCustoms Posted September 4, 2016 Share Posted September 4, 2016 16 hours ago, Michael Cochran said: I just meant I'd use a piece to try before I go buying a box just for the shop. I'm too cheap to buy something that I dont know will work. I always try before I buy if it's at all possible and I blame that on not having much as a kid, you learn to make more informed and thrifty decisions when you can't afford to waste money. That may also be part of why I bring home scrap steel every time I find some. I also have a bad habit of picking up pieces of coal I see mixed in the gravel driveways around here. Right on Michael. That was a big part of the draw of blacksmithing for me, being able to take something no one wants and turn it into something useful. What's the old saying, "use it up, wear it out, make it work or do without". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted September 4, 2016 Share Posted September 4, 2016 I'd be able to say a little more about Inuit and Athapaskan soapstone carving but both my carver friends died of cancer years ago though one carved bone and horn mostly. Anyway, I don't have close contact with the guys so I don't know the history of carving. When wood's available it's much preferred and decorates everything. Heck IS everything, Tlinget and Hyda boats are carved. I think you're probably right about popularity making soapstone carvers short lived artists. Unlike the popular myth you need pretty heavy exposure to asbestos in whatever form to cause mesotheleoma or I'd be dead decades ago. If you ever get up this way I'll take you up Soapstone road. Heck we can cruise around the Talkeetna mountains, visit some old mines, maybe run up the Glenn a ways and so some fossil hunting on Slide Mountain. Neat geology if you're interested in geology. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gote Posted September 4, 2016 Share Posted September 4, 2016 Living I mean eating, drinking, working, playing using talcum, blacksmithing etc. is very dangerous. It inevitably ends with death. Look at all those people who were using talc in the nineteenth, eightenth, seventeenth centuries. they are nearly all dead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted September 5, 2016 Share Posted September 5, 2016 Take a look at the recent talc lawsuit; as I recall they never proved that talc caused the cancer, they never proved that the company they sued was the responsible party for the talc used and were given a multi million dollar settlement. I hope the company appeals as they need to take this above the idiot level of the law... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLAG Posted September 5, 2016 Share Posted September 5, 2016 TP would you please cite the reference for this egregious products liability case, for me? I very much want to read it, & will be much obliged for the citation Negligence law requires proof of causality, proof of connection between the plaintiff and the defendant corporation, and proof of damages. This is a fixture of tort law. (Which includes negligence). Such knowledge is required of first year law students, and all candidates sitting the bar exams. It is so basic and universally accepted by all jurisdictions of the Common Law, (U.S., Cda., G.B., N.Z., Aus.), that it is a candidate for judicial notice. The judgement is so perverse that it will be struck down by an appeals court. There are a very few legal jurisdictions that are notorious for their manifest ignorance and idiotic decisions. Those courts' cases are readily struck down upon appeal. The company's insurance carrier will be, most probably, be taking the decision on appeal. I suspect there will be a raft of other large corporations that will be assisting by filing amicus curiae briefs to that appeal court in question. SLAG. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted September 5, 2016 Share Posted September 5, 2016 I'm about to leave on business travel followed by my trip to Quad-State; You will probably need to dig the details out yourself but here is a mention of the case: http://www.bloomberg.com/features/2016-baby-powder-cancer-lawsuits/ The case is Fox v. Johnson & Johnson, Cause No. 1422-CC09012-01, Division 10, Missouri Circuit Court, 22nd Judicial District (St. Louis). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.