GrumpyBiker Posted August 28, 2019 Share Posted August 28, 2019 Finally got back around to tuning my original forge today. It’s the hated brick forge. I lined it with Kaowool, rigidized it, coated it with refractory and with the left over ITC 100 I applied to my other forge, I put a coating on the brick forge. I first tried a T-Burner I’d picked up off Ebay and it was too much. It was blowing 10” flames out of every opening & crack around the doors. I swapped out the 6” tube to an 8” one & it was no better. So I went back to the little (mini mongo?) burner I started with. The Kaowool & refractory reduces the Cubic inches so that may have been the problem with using the T-Burner. Either way, with all the added insulation & the ITC 100 this thing got hotter than I’d ever seen this thing get ! I’d added the doors earlier and filled them with Kaowool & refractory & ITC 100 as well. I think this is going to be great as a back up &/ or for little items. The first photo is as it was originally & shows the heat level it attained. Not very hot compared to how it is today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted August 29, 2019 Author Share Posted August 29, 2019 That's much improved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 Looking good Grumpy. Jet Dry wetting agents and mixing refractories. I don't know how much if any it will or can effect a refractory's performance so don't get carried away. The Kastolite to water ratio I copied off their site would do pretty well with 1-2 drops of Jet Dry in the water. I believe 1/4 tsp. per gallon max is safe. It's better to use too little than too much and that's from soils lab tech experience. Kastolite 30 and water do NOT "stir" together, you have to kneed it pretty hard, I use a piece of water pipe with a cap like a pestle and scrape the sides with a stiff trowel. The more you mix it the easier it gets to work with but you WILL have to add a LITTLE more water than the factory instructions call for but we're NOT looking to get maximum strength or thermal resistance from it. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pnut Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 Chris, the jet dri was suggested by Frosty as a surfactant to be used in the water when mixing the fumed silica. Pnut Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted August 31, 2019 Author Share Posted August 31, 2019 Properly drying Kast-O-lite 30 Kast-O-lite 30, just like concrete, is a water setting mixture. And, like concrete, the refractory will be weakened, if allowed to dry out too quickly. So, most of us allow a week to pass before any drying is allowed to happen by evaporation. Many people place a damp towel over the forge opening(s). I just tape a plastic sack over my equipment for that period. Afterwards, gentle drying with an incandescent light bulb, small candles, etc. for a couple of days, before higher temperatures are used is recommended by most of us; why? Because, time is needed to dry out all the water content that is not chemically locked in the refractory; this water content can be driven off a little TOO easily!!! You don't want to build up much steam pressure within the refractory, by building steam faster than it can work its way out through the porous refractory surfaces. Finally, the burner is used on and off to slowly bring the "dry'" refractory up to full heat; this is done in order to allow additional time for the chemically locked water content to be driven off without building up much steam pressure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted August 31, 2019 Author Share Posted August 31, 2019 How fast can the water content that isn't chemically locked in the refractory be released? Fast enough that I always drill a weep hole (about 5/32") in the bottom of a forge for the water to stream out of. Even after refractory has been heated to incandescence it can regain water content from the air over the winter, and should be heated slwly after equipment has been idle for weeks. Most refractory needs to be heated into the yellow range--completely through--before it becomes water resistant; at that heat it's silica content becomes glass, and closes off most of the refractory's porous avenues for moisture to enter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris C Posted September 1, 2019 Share Posted September 1, 2019 I'm beginning to think it would really be a good idea for me to ship my forge housing and all the boxes of KOL30, etc., etc., etc. to you and just let you do it, Mikey! Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted September 1, 2019 Author Share Posted September 1, 2019 I'm not trying to make something simple into something complicated. However, some people get really nervous without a reason why things are done a particular way. Honestly, I is just trying to help Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris C Posted September 1, 2019 Share Posted September 1, 2019 Well, I'm beginning to have second thoughts about this whole project. I think it might just be more "compilated" than I figgered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted September 1, 2019 Author Share Posted September 1, 2019 Well, there's your answer; in the middle of your joke. Compile your understanding one facet at a time Or...you can ask me about every little thing you don't get--on this thread for forges, or on the Burners 101 for burners--and I will answer them without complaint. I just don't like to work that hard in a thread that's going to the archives in a month. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris C Posted September 1, 2019 Share Posted September 1, 2019 I read Burners 101 from start to finish a couple of months ago thinking I'd find answers. All I got out of it was far too many variable answers. Just confused me..........though I admit I'm easily confused at times. At any rate, Mikey, I'm building a 122 hole forced air ribbon burner. Might be the wrong thing to do, but that's the direction I'm headed for now....................well, actually the direction I'm headed right now is bed. Good Night All! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted September 1, 2019 Share Posted September 1, 2019 27 minutes ago, Chris The Curious said: I think it might just be more "compilated" than I figgered. Didn't you get that backwards Chris, don't you figger everything is more complicated than they are? Kastolite is pretty safe regards trapped moisture and steam pressure. It's advertised as being to porous to trap steam. It's still a good idea to heat it a little at a time till you've reached forging temps. If I've learned one thing in my 6+ decades you can't really trust advertisers. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris C Posted September 1, 2019 Share Posted September 1, 2019 Could be, Frosty, could be. Mikey suggested drilling a hole in the bottom of the forge to allow un-absorbed water to drip out. My forge is going to lined with K26 soft brick underneath the KOL30. Will the water still be able to drip out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted September 1, 2019 Share Posted September 1, 2019 It shouldn't be an issue Chris. Being a LITTLE overcautious isn't a bad thing though. I wasn't suggesting anyone NOT take the precaution of drilling a weep hole. I really only intended to point out different products behave differently. Many require heat curing and it's done in graduated steps over a few days. I did NOT say that very well, sorry for the confusion all. The easiest way I know of to drive off free moisture is to put it in a 230 f. oven for a few hours. Start in a cold oven and let the forge come up to temp with it. If you set the temp to 170 f. - 200 f. for a couple few hours first greatly reduces any chance of spalling. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris C Posted September 1, 2019 Share Posted September 1, 2019 50 minutes ago, Frosty said: put it in a 230 f. oven for a few hours Don't own an oven large enough to put my forge in, Frosty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted September 1, 2019 Share Posted September 1, 2019 Either you've done what everybody does and built a forge WAY too large or you bake biscuits one at a time. I doubt you have to worry about driving off moisture, the K 26 IFB is very porous so any pressure build up will be distributed through the whole liner. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris C Posted September 1, 2019 Share Posted September 1, 2019 1 hour ago, Frosty said: Either you've done what everybody does and built a forge WAY too large or you bake biscuits one at a time. 12 x 12 x 17 OD Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pnut Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 12x12x17 won't fit in your oven if you take the racks out? Pnut Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris C Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 Nothing in my shop that large...............and the little wife would NEVER allow me to use her oven for something like that. (and I'm not even joking!) I'll just put a lightbulb in it when the time comes. I imagine that will dry it out. Might take longer, but it should work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pnut Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 Yep, that is a common method. Pnut Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 You don't want it to DRY Chris until AFTER it's cured. When the refractory sets seal the whole thing in a plastic bag with a wet towel for a couple few days. Then dry it with the light bulb. You might get the better half to let you use the oven if you promise you aren't putting anything stinky in her oven. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris C Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 My plan was just as you are suggesting, Frosty.......................to wrap the forge in a big leaf bag with a wet towel in it for a few days while it cures. The light bulb will follow. My "better half's" nose is more fine tuned than a Blood Hound's! There was a little spot of mold that was showing up in our shower............no bigger than a dime. I sprayed about a half spray of Tilex on it before going to bed one night. She came paddling down the hall at about 4 am hollering "who poured Clorox in the house.............I'm gagging!" I swear, I couldn't even smell it when I squeezed the trigger. She has a bionic nose and bionic hearing. Tough for me to live with, but it's a cross I must bear. So NOTHING but food goes in her oven! I wouldn't even ask! Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kreuzmant Posted September 7, 2019 Share Posted September 7, 2019 Guys looking for a little help here and haven't been able to find a direct answer. I'm building a gas forge with a propane tank shell with two 1" layers of kaowool. My questions come to the kaowool. My order is going to be the following: kaowooI, rigidizer, kastolite 30, itc 100, and some firebrick on the bottom. My question is as I'm doing two 1" layers, do I need to apply all three solutions rigidizer, kastolite 30, and itc 100 to both layers of kaowool. Or should I just use Rigidizer on the first layer and the other solutions only on the second layer. Secondly should I cure the rigidizer between each layer, or put both layers in and cure both together? I apologize if this has been asked before, but after going through forum after forum I have been unable to find a direct answer. Any tips on type of rigidizer are also appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Another FrankenBurner Posted September 7, 2019 Share Posted September 7, 2019 First, if you have not made the order, do not order ITC 100. Instead order plistix 900F. ITC doesn't hold up and flakes off. Plistix is also much less expensive. As to the firebrick bottom, what firebrick? Install one inch of blanket, ridgidize, and cure it. Install the second inch of blanket, rigidize, cure. Butter the blanket(spritz liberally with water from spritzer bottle) and apply kastolite in 1/4-5/8" layer. Thicker if you are clumsy with hot metal, thinner if you want faster heat up. I like 3/8" thick. Let the kastolite sit overnight then put the whole forge into a garbage bag with a wet rag. Let this sit a few days, some advise a week. Pull it out of the bag and dry the kastolite slowly. Some advise a lightbulb in the forge, some advise putting the whole forge into the oven at 225, some just let it sit a day or two, and some give it gentle heat cycles with the burner. When you do get to the running the burner, start slow. Run it for a minute or two, then shut down until cool, then run it for 5 minutes and shut it down, etc. After you have made it fully to temp and it has cooled, butter the kastolite and apply the plistix in a few thin layers until you have a fully thin coated forge cavity. I let mine dry for a day and then heated it slowly the first time. It's not too critical. I've seen people who add the kast o lite, let it sit overnight, and full out on the burner the next day without issues. I don't advise this as it increases your odds for failure, I was just pointing it out so you don't go into it nervous about not getting everything exactly perfect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kreuzmant Posted September 7, 2019 Share Posted September 7, 2019 (edited) Meh, I jumped the gun previously and ordered the itc 100. The firebrick I ordered is from xxxxxxxxx so it’s a high temperature refractory fire brick. After you’re recommendation I’m getting in touch with waynecoe seeing about ordering plistix and that kastolite as I can’t find anything smaller than a 55# bag online which is much more than I need. Thanks for the quick reply and clearing up my question on the kaowool layers Edited September 7, 2019 by Mod30 Remove commercial link per TOS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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