Irondragon Forge ClayWorks Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 Stir it...a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swadly Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 Any additional advice? I used my wife stick blender, shook it and still not mixing well! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 Did you buy the hydrophilic or hydrophobic silica? Both are colloidal but the hydrophobic doesn't want to mix with water, hence the name. The hydrophilic silica just takes stirring or shaking. Try a few drops of Jet Dry in the water, it's a "surfacant," it breaks surface tension in water and lets it wet, often called a wetting solution. A drop of dish washing soap should help for the same reasons. More will NOT make either of these suggestions work better, ONE drop of dish soap. Okay? Dish soap or Jet Dry won't effect it as a rigidizer if you don't go crazy, it'll go away when it heats up. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swadly Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 Got the wrong silica!!! already have return label! Thanks Frosty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted June 26, 2019 Share Posted June 26, 2019 You're welcome, my pleasure. Glad it was an easy fix. Mikey tipped us to the two types a while back. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted June 26, 2019 Author Share Posted June 26, 2019 No; it was one of the other guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted June 26, 2019 Author Share Posted June 26, 2019 Refractory Products thread Management has put together a new permanent thread for this forum; it is dedicated to refractory products for forges. If you are planning to build a forge, you can't afford to mess that information. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted June 28, 2019 Author Share Posted June 28, 2019 Simwool Rigidizer? Someone on another thread wanted some input on Simwool Rigidizer, so I tried looking it up. The different sellers are pretty cagey in their descriptions of this product, which is a bad sign right off the bat. I did see other warning flags too: (1) It is overpriced. (2) It is described as "air hardening." Since it is described as a "silica based hardener", it must be either colloidal silica ( fumed silica in water), or water glass, which combines silica and salt; this is air hardening, which colloidal silica is not. Colloidal silica is use rated to 2300 F. Water glass MELTS at 1900 F; why would anyone pay a premium to choose it ?!? Water glass isn't really air hardening; it hardens in the Alan Dean Foster presence of carbon dioxide, which is why it takes a week or more to "air harden". Drop a little dry ice in the forge, and seal it up if you want water glass to set up fast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris C Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 As I've previously mentioned, the forge I'm building will produce a square 5.5"x5.5" cross-section interior. My FARB (3"x9") will be up close to the ceiling on the side wall and pointed directly at the opposite wall. I would think that would produce a swirling effect of some sort................but the chamber is also 17" long. So would it be a good idea to put a fillet in the opposite upper corner to instigate swirling or is the fact the 3" wide burner is on a 5.5" wall going to insure even temps throughout the forge? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted June 28, 2019 Author Share Posted June 28, 2019 Yes. You can also help maintain more even interior temperatures by aiming the burner(s) closer or further away from exhuast openings. Making the burner port(s) of larger diameters than otherwise desired; this can help ensure better temperature control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 That's at least the SECOND time you've caught me with the Allan Dean Foster reference when talking about sodium silicate Mike. I'm GOING to get you for that one of these days. Chris: You can also angle the burner so it impinges the far wall at an angle causing a general vortex. Aimed directly at a far wall causes more random turbulence. Filleting the corners enhances vortex patterns, doing the one closest to where the bulk of the burner's flame impinges will have greater effect. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris C Posted June 29, 2019 Share Posted June 29, 2019 Mikey, I'm planning on going with DRotblatt's opinion of "lots of holes" in my burner. My ribbon burner will have 122 1/8" holes. I'll try that first.................and if it doesn't work, well, I'll just cast another ribbon burner. Frosty, since the cavity is so small, would it be of benefit to actually cut into the body of the forge at a 45 degree angle through the upper corner? Or, as you suggested, just angle the burner at a slight angle aimed at the opposite wall? I could use the "slight angle" concept and raise the burner about 2" higher on the the wall. (decisions, decisions, decisions) I haven't cut into the body of the forge yet, so I've still time to change plans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted June 29, 2019 Share Posted June 29, 2019 What I'm going to try on my next experiment is making the burner port taper wider as it enters the forge. Then I'm going to mount my burners on tabs at the ends so I can pivot them. I really screwed up on my last one and welded the plenums to the shell.Pretty dumb I know, go ahead and rub it in I deserve it. I'm going with the 122+ 1/8 burner outlets myself. NA of course. Blower? I don't need no STEEKNEEN blower. Pltttt. I still don't know how I'm going to pull off the forge though. I ain't welding the burners to an experiment this time, that's for sure! Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris C Posted June 29, 2019 Share Posted June 29, 2019 1 minute ago, Frosty said: I'm going to mount my burners on tabs at the ends so I can pivot them Very good idea. May just steel it myself. Make the opening a little larger to accommodate the ability to pivot. Hmmmmm. This is fun! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted June 29, 2019 Share Posted June 29, 2019 Have at it. Let me know if it works so I'll know if I should come up with something else. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.Rotblatt Posted June 29, 2019 Share Posted June 29, 2019 5 hours ago, Chris The Curious said: Frosty, since the cavity is so small, would it be of benefit to actually cut into the body of the forge at a 45 degree angle through the upper corner? FYI, I have my burner in a forge with a very small interior diameter. Close to your 5.5x5.5 size. My burner is pointing straight down from the top. The flames are less than an inch long even at 15 lbs pressure (over welding heat) and so the propane is fully combusted well above the floor. I'm getting no scaling (when using a slightly reducing mixture), and welding without flux. 4 hours ago, Frosty said: I'm going with the 122+ 1/8 burner outlets myself. Chris and Frosty; You may want to try a wood test block or two to see if you can go with more holes then the 122. I just kept increasing the number until it worked. While it works well, it might work better with more holes - though I couldn't fit more in the size block I had (8 x 2.5). This is an experiment that has just begun. I tried it because it seemed that everyone had just blindly followed what Wayne Coe had done, which had worked, but seemed to have some problems with backfiring at low pressures. Don't make the same mistake with mine, it works, but may not be ideal. Keep on pushing the boundaries. DanR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted June 29, 2019 Author Share Posted June 29, 2019 7 hours ago, Frosty said: hat's at least the SECOND time you've caught me with the Allan Dean Foster reference when talking about sodium silicate Mike. I'm GOING to get you for that one of these days. Not I, but my computer; its got a bug, and is going to need a good cleaning soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris C Posted June 29, 2019 Share Posted June 29, 2019 Dan, I laid the drilling pattern out on my ribbon burner drawing. After reading how much trouble people have had getting the casting material in between the straws, I can't imagine how I'm going to get it between 122 of them..............much less adding even more straws. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwmelvin Posted June 29, 2019 Share Posted June 29, 2019 Vibrating worked great for me, with 3 mm cores. The refractory sunk in like magic. I used an offset weight on an angle grinder to vibrate, so pretty high frequency. I wasn't using Kast-o-lite though, I used Wayne's refractory #2, which doesn't have the fibers or large particles of KOL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted June 29, 2019 Share Posted June 29, 2019 Sounds like a good idea Dan, I'll wait on your next burner results. The refractories recommended on Wayne's site don't have crushed material for aggregate so they flow a lot more easily than KOL. The next forge on my drawing board doesn't have room to make the ribbon longer so I'm making it another row maybe an inch wider and spread the 1/8" cores out. Heck, I'd be perfectly fine if the entire side or top of my forge blew flame. NO, I'm not going to make the forge liner into a burner, it'd d nothing but burn back once it warmed up. I'm just going to go through my stock pile for some wider square tubing or fab the plenum if necessary. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey98118 Posted June 30, 2019 Author Share Posted June 30, 2019 Two kinds of fumed silica It has been stated that there are two different kinds of fumed silica; water soluble and insoluble kinds. Someone accidentally purchased the insoluble variety recently, and it wouldn't work to make colloidal silica. Apparently, the water soluble kind of fumed silica is what people usually find in the marketplace. I have also read that one of the common uses of fumed silica is as a thickening agent in milkshakes. It is probably past time that this group sorts out the difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 The local plastic shop CAC only sells the one kind. They buy in bulk and package small quantities for the shelf. Their main job is making things from plastic, fiberglass, resins, etc. but they sell too. Good catch Mike I didn't think of that it just doesn't apply to me so I spaced it. ALREADY! So, water soluble or not is a GOOD thing to ask about if you're not buying a brand name package. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.Rotblatt Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 16 hours ago, Chris The Curious said: I can't imagine how I'm going to get it between 122 of them Just drop little bits of refractory between the rows and push them down with a knife. Takes some time, but it does work. Someone here just used steel rods that were well greased up, the stiffness helped and they all pulled out easily the next day after it set up. You can get stainless welding rod in 1/8" or just steel rod at home depot. Just make sure the ends don't have burrs. Also, if I was going with more holes, I would use a larger burner face. They don't have to be so close together. Maybe a 3" or 3.5" x 8" face. 10 hours ago, Frosty said: Sounds like a good idea Dan, I'll wait on your next burner results. I'm playing with the 3D printed injectors now, so don't wait on me. Try a few wooden test blocks if you have the time. I do have plans to make a larger burner with several hundred holes for my forced air forge, but I'm off to Spain in two weeks with my son and won't be back til August. Injectors and Ribbon burners: I've been playing with different types of injectors on a 3/4" x 8" black pipe burner. I'm testing the better results two ways: I put a 1.25" nozzle on the pipe, or I plug it into the NARB. One thing I've noticed with the NARB is that it's incredibly forgiving when it comes to the type of injector. It seems to have a slightly richer flame then the standard burner with nozzle. Basically I have to put a size smaller mig tip on the injector to get a neutral flame. My Reil burner (with #60 hole) works as well as the high end injectors - the flame is about the same length as one with a .040 mig tip. My guess: a little bit more backpressure and with the right elbow and opening in the plenum there is more time for the gas to mix. Upshot is that high end injectors may be a waste of time with ribbon burners. DanR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted June 30, 2019 Share Posted June 30, 2019 I'm going to use 1/8" welding/brazing rod, I picked up probably 30 lbs at a yard sale a couple years ago and I'm sure I have something. Regardless I'm using metal cores for the outlet nozzles. Much as I don't like the idea of drilling 125- 150 1/8" holes in a board it beats casting a block to find out what I want won't work. <Sigh> On the other hand I'm not drilling holes to hold the cores in the mold, I'll mark it and just drive the core rods in. I have to debur them anyway I might as well sharpen one end. To be honest Dan, I'm having trouble believing you're going to let a trip to Spain stop you playing with burners. I'm shocked, SHOCKED I say! Well DARN what can I do but wing it till you get back. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Another FrankenBurner Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 Tired of cracking expensive bricks, we tried something. Rigidized blanket, fully coated in kast o lite. It has several hours of fire time. We are happy so far and making more. We also just faced the first one with matrikote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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