Can Silver and Steel be combined to create a viable blade

[FusionShardProductions]

First off no idea if this is the right place to post this if not I apologize. I have always had a fascination with the idea of trying to craft a blade that could have a electrical current flow through it. Regardless of how to do so which I'm still trying to find out as I still would want it to be a viable weapon and not change the way the specific type of blade would be handled. I know the best material to make a blade out of is steel but from what I have read though it is a conductor it is by far not the best, silver however is the best conductor of all metals at least that is what I have found to be the most consistent answer for the the question "Which metal is the best conductor?". My question for any Blacksmith willing to answer is, could steel be melted down along with silver, could the new metal then be made into a blade that is just as durable as a normal steel blade, and would that blade be a better conductor of electricity?

[Michael Cochran]

I wouldn't waste the silver myself. I have to ask why do you want a blade that's better capable of conducting electricity than a steel blade would? I cannot think of a good reason to even think about connecting a knife to a power supply much less making it conduct better. 

[the iron dwarf]

take a blade sized piece of steel that is clean and measure the resistance from end to end

try the same with copper and see what results you get

try it with silver

 

[FusionShardProductions]

11 minutes ago, Michael Cochran said:

I wouldn't waste the silver myself. I have to ask why do you want a blade that's better capable of conducting electricity than a steel blade would? I cannot think of a good reason to even think about connecting a knife to a power supply much less making it conduct better. 

I don't quite know why I want to do this myself, maybe its to break into a new market with "Taser Knives" which I don't think are a thing yet and if they are it's a small market, I just know that I want to figure out how to make a blade that can conduct electricity better than a steel one that is also just as durable as a steel one.

[Wroughton]

You're trekking through new territory in the manufacturing side of bladesmithing too. You need to think about ways to inlay a heavy band of silver in a steel blade if you want the bragging rights of having silver on the blade. If it's just for better conductivity, then copper would probably do the trick.

There very well may be an exotic alloy that will hold an edge AND conduct electricity similar to copper. If there is such an animal it's price per OZ may exceed the silver. 

good luck

[Steve Sells]

NO, but I do remember  doing electrical service changes in a  bad neighbourhood,  when I got the permits at the building dept, I was warned to not put in grounding system until the last possible minute, as the clueless people there would steal them, thinking they could get $2# for the copper, not understanding the grounding rods we use are in fact steel, with a copper anti corrosion coating... salvage value about 7 cents a # 

Also many Bus bars in electrical panels are steel. but what do I know eh?  but that steel grade has  a few elements to help it be more conductive.   but its not silver    I will let you figure out what element that is, its not too hard to search the web and see.

[FusionShardProductions]

50 minutes ago, Steve Sells said:

I remember  doing electrical service changes in a  bad neighbourhood,  when I got the permits at the building dept, I was warned to not put in grounding system until the last possible minute, as the clueless people there would steal them, thinking they could get $2# for the copper, not understanding the grounding rods we use are in fact steel, with a copper anti corrosion coating... salvage value about 7 cents a # 

Also many Bus bars in electrical panels are steel. but what do I know eh?  but that steel grade has  a few elements to help it be more conductive.   but its not silver    I will let you figure out what element that is, its not too hard to search the web and see.

I want to say Silver but it isn't used very often in the field of electronics or whatever it is from what I've read and you just said it wasn't Silver, Copper I know is used a lot, Gold is pretty conductive, Nickel, Zinc, Aluminium.

[Michael Cochran]

1 hour ago, FusionShardProductions said:

I don't quite know why I want to do this myself, maybe its to break into a new market with "Taser Knives" which I don't think are a thing yet and if they are it's a small market, I just know that I want to figure out how to make a blade that can conduct electricity better than a steel one that is also just as durable as a steel one.

I may be out of line but I have to say 'taser knives' are not going to be any good for any defensive measures and is in fact a very bad idea. The internal resistance of the human body is so low that very little electricity is needed to kill someone if it's introduced to the moist squishy insides.

You might also want to reread Stevens post. He clearly says it's not silver in those steel panels.

[FusionShardProductions]

5 minutes ago, Michael Cochran said:

I may be out of line but I have to say 'taser knives' are not going to be any good for any defensive measures and is in fact a very bad idea. The internal resistance of the human body is so low that very little electricity is needed to kill someone if it's introduced to the moist squishy insides.

You might also want to reread Stevens post. He clearly says it's not silver in those steel panels.

If I'm being attacked I'm looking to survive by whatever means necessary then again I never did say I would market them to the public and yeah I know he said it wasn't Silver which is why I said it isn't used often in the field of electronics or whatever it is and I just edited to clarify I know it isn't Silver.

[Steve Sells]

Since it came up,  Its takes 50 milli amps to kill a man, less than half that to knock them out, lucky for us the human skin is a poor conductor.

[TwistedCustoms]

When I was very young I worked for a finance company repoing house trailers. I went to pick one up that had been vacant for months. Up to that time I had never picked one up that still had the power or water on so I wasn't in a habit of checking. One of the chores of repoing trailers is to cut the condenser unit loose and throw it in the back door. This was the early 1980s and we didn't recover coolant back then, just cut the copper lines and power with side cutters and when all the freon shot out pick up the unit and set it inside. Anyway, the meter  was gone but someone had stuck jumper wires into the base to steal electricity. When I cut the line going to the condenser unit I was instantly blinded by the flash and got a good coppery taste of ozone. My Klein side cutters were welded shut, not a1000 volt insulated pair, just regular Klein's. I never felt even the slightest tickle. I didn't ground out, no burns, no voltage, just a lesson I'll never forget. Oh, and also first hand knowledge that good old fashion tool steel is PLENTY conductive!

[FusionShardProductions]

2 minutes ago, TwistedCustoms said:

When I was very young I worked for a finance company repoing house trailers. I went to pick one up that had been vacant for months. Up to that time I had never picked one up that still had the power or water on so I wasn't in a habit of checking. One of the chores of repoing trailers is to cut the condenser unit loose and throw it in the back door. This was the early 1980s and we didn't recover coolant back then, just cut the copper lines and power with side cutters and when all the freon shot out pick up the unit and set it inside. Anyway, the meter  was gone but someone had stuck jumper wires into the base to steal electricity. When I cut the line going to the condenser unit I was instantly blinded by the flash and got a good coppery taste of ozone. My Klein side cutters were welded shut, not a1000 volt insulated pair, just regular Klein's. I never felt even the slightest tickle. I didn't ground out, no burns, no voltage, just a lesson I'll never forget. Oh, and also first hand knowledge that good old fashion tool steel is PLENTY conductive!

I know steel isn't a bad conductor by any means but there are metals that are better than it and if I can figure out which one can be melted down with steel to form a blade that is more conductive than normal steel and just as durable it would be a very good day in the world of Bladesmithing

[Prevenge]

This reminds me of the time I was brainstorming how I could make a flamethrower that would also electrocute things. The general principle of a taser in practice is that it is not a lethal weapon .... a taser knife to me seems like using a compound hunting crossbow with broadheads to administer a tranquilizer. I don't blame you though...mad science is fun. Hypothetically speaking , I would probably construct it in a laminate fashion. with electrode plates and insulating plates sandwiched around a contemporary steel blade. Tasers work by delivering the shock between the two points right? Just energizing the whole blade probably wouldn't do much of anything.

[FusionShardProductions]

23 minutes ago, Steve Sells said:

Since it came up,  Its takes 50 milli amps to kill a man, less than half that to knock them out, lucky for us the human skin is a poor conductor.

Yeah maybe not a good idea to sell this possible product to the public but selling it to the military for close quarters combat which I honestly don't know how often that happens but I feel it would be more effective in cases of it anyway as I was saying if you sell it to the military you could probably make a killing

16 minutes ago, Prevenge said:

This reminds me of the time I was brainstorming how I could make a flamethrower that would also electrocute things. The general principle of a taser in practice is that it is not a lethal weapon .... a taser knife to me seems like using a compound hunting crossbow with broadheads to administer a tranquilizer. I don't blame you though...mad science is fun. Hypothetically speaking , I would probably construct it in a laminate fashion. with electrode plates and insulating plates sandwiched around a contemporary steel blade. Tasers work by delivering the shock between the two points right? Just energizing the whole blade probably wouldn't do much of anything.

Never said I'd sell it to the public, military most likely. Yeah mad science is fun and I'm taking what I learn from this thread and not only trying to produce one of these blades but I'm also writing something that is even more mad science (as I right science fiction when I get board) in which a sword can literally grow like you just used the stereotypical growth ray on it (it would grow 10 times with some sort of growth limiter placed on it) as well as it being able to shrink back down to its original size which is why I have also been researching rubber I guess (for the hilt grip), the most elastic substances basically, I know it is going to have to do something with resilin, but anyway I still want it to have some basis in reality oh and that sword is basically going to be able to be wielded by a giant ape.

[Steve Sells]

this has gone from  serious to ridiculous very fast...

[FusionShardProductions]

7 minutes ago, Steve Sells said:

this has gone from  serious to ridiculous very fast...

Just keeping it real, I am very serious about wanting to figure out how to make a steel-X material composite blade and possibly creating a new market but what I do when I'm bored doesn't really matter here though. I should also probably rephrase what I said, it's not just me a friend of mine comes up with the ideas and I enjoy researching really anything so I find ways to help the story stay as realistic as possible with what I'm given

[the iron dwarf]

you may be able to add silver to the steel to make it 0.0001% more conductive but at the same time making the steel 25% weaker / softer, would that be a good selling point?

[FusionShardProductions]

Just now, the iron dwarf said:

you may be able to add silver to the steel to make it 0.0001% more conductive but at the same time making the steel 25% weaker / softer, would that be a good selling point?

Hey I'm wondering if it would be possible, if another metal can give the same effect I'm looking for I'll gladly listen to what it is

[Dale Russell]

Electric Steels or Electric EELS  ? ........

 

[TwistedCustoms]

41 minutes ago, Dale Russell said:

Electric Steels or Electric EELS  ? ........

 

Youre onto something now, I'll begin constructing an eel sharpener at once!

1 hour ago, Steve Sells said:

this has gone from  serious to ridiculous very fast...

Yes, but there is nothing on TV I care to watch tonight so electric steels and eels it is. Plus when I'm here I can read useful information between times.

[Frozenthunderbolt]

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Shape your steel blade like this (there is already a mil-spec fighting knife in production like this with twin blades) run your conductive elements up the inside of each prong - inset.

[Frosty]

8 hours ago, FusionShardProductions said:

Just keeping it real, I am very serious about wanting to figure out how to make a steel-X material composite blade and possibly creating a new market but what I do when I'm bored doesn't really matter here though. I should also probably rephrase what I said, it's not just me a friend of mine comes up with the ideas and I enjoy researching really anything so I find ways to help the story stay as realistic as possible with what I'm given

Did you really just say "Just keeping it real"?  What you're asking wouldn't make good sci fi, fantasy maybe but it's a long shout from "real".

I say this for a couple reasons. First  you think a knife is a good self defense weapon. You've never done any training with knives let alone been in a knife fight have you? The typical results of a knife fight have the one with the knife taking serious damage from his own blade, not because the opponent does some Kung Fu move takes the blade away and slices you up, it's because knives are hard to hold onto especially once a little slippery blood is on the handle. To find the culprit in a knife attack the police look for the person in the hospital getting all the stitches in their hands.

Another bit of fantasy is putting a taser jolt electrical system in one with any hope of it being useful in a fight. A taser will take out an opponent from a distance. To make a contact stunner work you have to touch the opponent. If you can touch them they can touch you. have you ever seen someone tasered? Notice how violently they jump before they go rigid like a board? You're there touching them with a sharp knife when the person you're touching gives a jump 4 burly men can't keep still, they just catch and let the victim down gently.

Fantasy 3 If a military man draws a knife on you it's NOT with intent to stun you, it's to kill you. If the military wants you stunned they'll use a taser.

When Steve suggested you do some reading he did NOT mean you should guess again. He's not going to play guessing games with you. If you're not serious enough to do some serious research we're not going to do it for you.

Frosty The Lucky.

 

[TheoRockNazz]

Fusion, I think you would enjoy the WASP knife. It pretty much solves your 1-hit KO requirement while looking slick doing it. Otherwise, you're talking about combining two different weapons that simply don't make sense to combine because it takes away the best elements of each when you do.

[ThomasPowers]

OK I know that they have hooked up sword blades to car batteries to create sparks for movie special effects.  Also a lot of fencing blades  are made to include a wire in it that goes to the button on the end to allow for electric scoring. So rather than reinvent the wheel....

As for alloying: If you got enough silver in the steel to make a noticable difference I don't think you would have a bladeworthy steel anymore.

[Dogsoldat]

Correct me if I'm wrong...  but I thought electricity went around the outer surface of an object,  same reason a  farady cage works.  So why not plate it with a more conductive surface rather than trying an alloy.  may end up with the best of both