Reading Creek Forger Posted May 7, 2016 Share Posted May 7, 2016 I bought a piece of copper buss bar at the scrap yard intending to make it into a cutting plate/saddle to fit my anvil. It is about 1/4 thick and 4 inches wide. I have enough to made several of those type plates. After I bought it I was told by another smith that heating the buss bar can be very hazardous. He said you have to grind off the coating (tin?) to make sure it is safe to apply heat to. I am concerned about the heating that would occur when cutting hot metal on it. I can bend it to shape with a fly press so the heating would only be the transfer from the hot metal I was trying to cut. The piece I bought has been ground clean by someone and I think it would make an excellent cutting plate to protect my anvil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted May 7, 2016 Share Posted May 7, 2016 Until you get your iron hotter than 1,984°F/1,085°C ... when you do: Surprise ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the iron dwarf Posted May 7, 2016 Share Posted May 7, 2016 one problem with copper is that it is a very good conductor of heat, your work will cool very fast Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stash Posted May 7, 2016 Share Posted May 7, 2016 I've always wondered about using copper as a cutting plate, that it will tend to draw the heat out of the metal quicker than a mild steel plate. Beside that, I'm frugal (cheep) and am more likely to use what I have laying about, mild steel-wise. With a nice chunk of copper like that, I would prefer to forge something with it. Kind of like what Yesteryear Forge did. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reading Creek Forger Posted May 8, 2016 Author Share Posted May 8, 2016 Thanks Steve. Melting point of copper may make this impractical. I try to avoid heating the metal to be cut so hot as to lose the temper of my hot cut chisel so it seem likely it is less than 1900 degrees but who knows for sure. The bus bar segment cost me about 25-30 dollars at the scrap yard as far as I can recall so not that expensive if it means saving my anvil face. I think I could shape ten cutting plates in a saddle configuration from the piece I have so I would have lots to work with if the hazard was not an issue. Losing heat from the iron to the copper is not an attractive option but seems likely based on the respective properties of the two metals. Thanks Stash and Iron D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Coke Posted May 8, 2016 Share Posted May 8, 2016 Greetings Reading, Copper being copper soft and maluable as a cut plate will soon deform and will not fit well on your anvil.. Wonder how I know that? Been there.. I'm not so sure buss bars are pure copper? Forge on and make beautiful things Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmoothBore Posted May 8, 2016 Share Posted May 8, 2016 Another possible "variable" that might be a point of concern, is the possibility of "contaminating" your fire with residual copper, transferred on the work piece. While this is not particularly "likely", it is certainly possible. Why take the chance, when other, more suitable materials are readily available ? ------------------------------------------------------------- If you need a "lesson" about copper contamination, toss a penny in your forge, ... and become enlightened. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Evans Posted May 8, 2016 Share Posted May 8, 2016 It will only take one heat to try it for yourself. I used a lump of 5 or 6mm (1/4") brass for a cutting plate for a while. It seemed to work fine...I think it is still kicking around somewhere. The big advantage is that as the surface got "chased" and the little levees were thrown up each side of the bruises they were soft enough not to mark the underside of the subsequent workpieces so much...which is the problem with steel plates. The worries of melting it did not prove a problem. It would have been great if it did...it would be almost self levelling, self-healing! I have never made a saddle type, just used a loose square around the width of the anvil/power hammer pallet. The advantage being you can turn them over alternate cuts and the anvil surface pushes the raised bits back which reduces the marks being transferred to the workpiece. Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gote Posted May 8, 2016 Share Posted May 8, 2016 We were using a piece of copper in my previous smithy - absolutely no problems. Maybe it took some more heat off than mild steel but we never made any experiments. I am now using a discarded aluminium frying pan I just cut off the edges. Works well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reading Creek Forger Posted May 8, 2016 Author Share Posted May 8, 2016 Thanks to all of you for your informative responses. Now I just have to make up my mind to try it or not. Regarding copper or I presume other metals contaminating your forge fire: Most of us have heard the old sage of rival blacksmiths dropping a penny in another smith's forge and thereby preventing him from forge welding until he or she cleaned their fire. I was recently at the CBA Spring Conference in Ferndale, CA and Mark Aspery was giving a class on forge welding. Near the end of the class a smith asked him about the old story and Mark said he had never tried it and neither had the questioner. The smith asked if they could try in Marks fire. Once Mark was done with the fire for the demonstration he put a piece of copper in the fire then proceeded to heat two 1/2 bars to welding temp and forge welded them together without difficulty. Not sure I could pull it off but didn't seem to cause Mr Aspery any difficulties. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Sells Posted May 8, 2016 Share Posted May 8, 2016 I forge bronze in the same fires as iron,, not a problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted May 8, 2016 Share Posted May 8, 2016 WHAT IS THE PLATING? If it's tin no problem; if it's CADMIUM BIG PROBLEM HEATING OR GRINDING. Why not a nice piece of gooey stainless for a cutting plate? (Buss bar should be very pure copper BTW) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGGUNDOCTOR Posted May 8, 2016 Share Posted May 8, 2016 :-) Some of the buss bars I have seen were silver plated.. What you have is some good sized plates that could have several uses. I would lean towards making things from it and getting something else for cutting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reading Creek Forger Posted May 8, 2016 Author Share Posted May 8, 2016 No visible plating is left on this and it looks like its been ground clean as if it had plating at one time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rashelle Posted May 8, 2016 Share Posted May 8, 2016 I forged copper all day in a coal fire, then at the end of the day, no effort into cleaning the fire other then the normal, I proceded to forge weld. Experiment was undertaken again this time with copper dropped into the fire and left there. Forge welding was again successful. Saw Brian Brazeal also forge copper in a coke fire then do normal forge welds. Other then pretty colors copper had no adverse effect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stash Posted May 8, 2016 Share Posted May 8, 2016 Oh yeah- be careful dropping pennies in the forge- the newer mintings are copper-plated zinc slugs. Zinc fumes ain't good fer ya! Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasPowers Posted May 8, 2016 Share Posted May 8, 2016 OTOH pennies make a good metered supply of zinc to add to your brass casting if the zinc levels are getting low. I still make a habit of picking them up off the ground---paid exercise! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty Posted May 8, 2016 Share Posted May 8, 2016 The main caution I've been seeing about buss bar is it being beryllium copper and so potentially very toxic. Not all buss bars but a good %. I think they're the ones needing some structural strength maybe? I have a nice piece of Al plate when I need a cutting plate for THOSE things. Frosty The Lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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