Practice, Practice, Practice!

[VaughnT]

Since I'm banned from posting any more in my other thread....

I checked my rods again and they're rated for 120-145 amps +-.  1/8" 7014 from Tractor Supply because it was cheaper than the 7018 they had and I couldn't figure there'd be any difference between the two.

Switching my machine over to run electrode positive made all the difference in the world.  I never would have thought it would be a thing, especially since the stinking rod company said their rods were good for either polarity.  Why say that if it's not true?

Anyhow, I turned the arc force knob down to 2 because that was mentioned in the pdf linked in the other thread.  I have no idea if this made a big difference in anything, but it sure didn't seem to hurt anything.

My first run....  Looks like the first beads were undercutting the vertical coupon.  Not sure exactly, but then I'm more of a grinder than a welder.

Right now I'm only good for welding a few inches before the shakes set in and I loose sight of things in all the smoke and such.  Bad eyes certainly don't help.

So, I ran l-to-r and r-to-l, meeting in the middle.

Here we can see just how bad I get.  I'm still in the warm-up phase, but trying to see where I'm going is a bear.  Instead of a straight drag, I have to do a zigzag so the light from the arc gives me a little illumination... and it's still not the high-beams I'd prefer!

Any idea what caused the explosion at the end of the bead?  I love the look when I'm doing a dragon's fang, but I'd really like to be able to do it on-demand rather than just having it happen.  This is the only instance in all the rods I burned and I didn't catch notice of anything odd when I pulled away.

After three layers of beads, I decided to call it quits and do some forging.  All told, I'm very happy with how I ended things.  I still need to work on my starts and stops, and find a way of dealing with the edges of the metal.  I like the big ol' thumbprints at the end of my runs.

The plan is to keep welding this sucker until it's a chock full of beads.  Then I'll flip it over and start welding on the other sides.  

Between the 7014 and 6013 rods, I think I can weld up just about any project that comes to mind.  So, I'll keep welding on this, practicing for a few rods every time I get a few minutes in the shop.

Certainly can't say enough about all the help, gents.  Never would have known about that arc force thing or trying E+.  I should have posted my questions a long time ago and saved myself no end of frustration!

 

 

[arkie]

Vaughn, you'll find that the more common rods (6010, 6011, 6013, 7014, 7018) run best on DCEP, but the 6011's will run equally well on AC.  For lower penetration run the 6013's on DCEN.  Drag rods are usually 6013, 7014 and 7018 or maybe run with a very tight arc.  Your beads are coming along.  The explosion at the end of one bead may have been long arcing.

[John McPherson]

Tar and feathers? Check! Torches and pitchforks? Rodger that! Advice warning ahead. Don't take it personally.

 

(1) If you are holding the right arc length, you should not have a bright light, but more of an eclipse effect. A ring of fire peeking out from under the flux.

The ends of the finished rods should have a rocket cone effect, with a rounded half ball on the end of the wire inside the cone of flux. If not, you are most likely long arcing. If your bead gets wider at the end, definitely long arcing.

(2) Try not to leave that "thumbprint" at the end of a bead, instead do a little swirl like you are topping off a soft serve ice cream cone.

Those craters will lead to crater cracks, which can spread along the weld bead and base metal.

(3) Run the rod right at the edge of the previous bead (called the toe), so that half of the bead washes on the face of the previous bead, and half washes onto the base metal. This makes your welds overlap like shingles on a roof, giving you a flatter and stronger weld.
 

[Jim Coke]

Greetings John, 

In the past I have run a lot of rod and wire but I would sure like a week or so with you looking over my shoulder .. You are indeed an asset to this sight . I only hope others appreciate what you do . THANX 

Forge on and make beautiful things

Jim 

[VaughnT]

42 minutes ago, John McPherson said:

Tar and feathers? Check! Torches and pitchforks? Rodger that! Advice warning ahead. Don't take it personally.

 

(1) If you are holding the right arc length, you should not have a bright light, but more of an eclipse effect. A ring of fire peeking out from under the flux.

The ends of the finished rods should have a rocket cone effect, with a rounded half ball on the end of the wire inside the cone of flux. If not, you are most likely long arcing. If your bead gets wider at the end, definitely long arcing.

(2) Try not to leave that "thumbprint" at the end of a bead, instead do a little swirl like you are topping off a soft serve ice cream cone.

Those craters will lead to crater cracks, which can spread along the weld bead and base metal.

(3) Run the rod right at the edge of the previous bead (called the toe), so that half of the bead washes on the face of the previous bead, and half washes onto the base metal. This makes your welds overlap like shingles on a roof, giving you a flatter and stronger weld.
 

John, I'm always up for advice so don't hold back.  My skin's thick enough and I appreciate a good critique.

1)  Arc length seems to be one of those things that experienced welders know, but you can't get it across in a video or text.  I did what I did, but I couldn't tell you if my arc length was good, bad, mediocre, or a combination of all three.  Aggravating stuff!  From what I recall, I was trying to keep the fingernail of flux just lightly scraping the steel as I dragged the rod along.  This fingernail kept catching on the uneven surface of the previous beads, but does that mean I was short-arcing and too close for that application?  Does that mean I need to turn up my "arc force" setting to get more oomph?  Or do you just need to hold the end of the rod farther away so you're not using that fingernail of flux as your guide?

2)  I'd love to not leave those thumbprints.  I think they look neat, but I'm going for that perfect stack of dimes.   I'll try swirling next time I run a rod.

3)  Please feel free to have a conversation with my welding rods.  I tried my dangedest to get them to run right at the edge of the previous bead, but they just flat refuse.  

I have a self-darkening helmet and will play with the settings to see if I can get it set in a way that helps my eyes.  My eyes have a hard time focusing through multiple layers of glass and such, so I need to weld without my spectacles (or look over the top of them) while trying to keep the bead in that sweet spot where things are visible.

[Dogsoldat]

A thought  might be to look into magnifying lenses for your welding mask.  Worked for one old gentleman for a few days and that's what he had in all his masks.  Took quite a bit to get use to for me but he swore by them.

[John McPherson]

The stop and swirl is just for finishing off a bead, for the specific purpose of not leaving a crater.  Bead patterns are a whole 'nuther subject, learn to drag a stringer bead before you get into 'Texas lace' territory.

The spatter from the previous bead is most likely catching the flux on your next pass.  You need to keep the rod only about 15 - 20 degrees off of 90, too much lean causes other problems.  A knotted wire brush is just the ticket for cleaning between passes, gets all the oxidation, loose flux and spatter out of the way.

You can't weld what you can't see.  Cheaters are available in all reading glass magnifications from 1.00 to 3.00, usually less than $10 US from any reputable welding supply.  Hustle down to the corner drugstore and try on a few sets from the display, until you find what works for you, then order that number.

For those without an auto-darkening hood, a flood lamp a yard above the table away from the spatter, or moving the project out into the sunshine, will make that shade 10 livable.

[ironwolfforgeca]

I have been welding since 1977 & always learn something new from Johns  posts !!! & other welders !

Jim I will second that Thanks John & All

[VaughnT]

I needed to tack a few pieces in place for a project, so I decided to run a quick warm-up bead.  Straight across, with no breaks, and I got a decent looking bead.  Seems like I'm getting some undercutting and the slag is hard to get off.  Why?  This was 1/8" 7014 rod with the machine set to 122 amps and the arc force set at 2.  Is the undercutting indicative of going too slow?  Why is the scale so hard to remove?  Do the air bubbles in the scale point to anything in particular, or is that the nature of the beast?  Some times the scale is really thick and has a lot of air bubbles, other times it's really thin and comes off with no problems at all.  Sometimes it's both on the same bead.

[DSW]

What I see there is failure to tie the bead to the lower plate. It's could be one of two things. #1 you are aiming to "high" and aren't washing the bead down onto the lower piece. #2 you are laying down too much material and the bead is simply building up and rolling over onto cold plate ( cold lap). I'd bet on aiming too high myself. I can't really tell what you are trying to do here. If you are doing a pad with overlapping beads, or a muti pass fillet joint. If you are doing a fillet joint you look to be doing it "backwards" from how I'd do it. It looks like you started high and are working down vs building a "shelf" and stacking each bead on top of the last "row".

 

What you are calling "scale" is actually slag. Bubbles in slag can come from several reasons. One being impurities, dirt etc on the piece, another being the fact you may be holding the rod excessively far from the piece causing a long arc.

 

I tried before to reply on your comment about being able to see well, but the disappearing post issue wouldn't let me.  Light coming in from behind your hood often can cause reflections on the glass inside making it hard to see. Some times it can help to cover the back of the hood with a flap or something to block the light. Different hoods block light better or worse. I know a number of guys who have bought a cheap HF leather apron and cut it up to cover the back of their hood. At some point I'll probably do mine as well.  Additional lighting can also help. I often suggest to students they buy a cheap reflector spot light with a clamp and bring it with them to class. The lighting in the schools weld shop sucks. In many booths you either end up with light from the new overheads in the back of your hood causing reflections, or the dim lights in the booth make a lot of shadows that make it very hard to see. Pointing a good bright light where you need it can be a huge help.

[VaughnT]

DSW, that picture is actually inverted so I could get a good shot without a lot of glare.  When I was welding, the bead was flat on the table.  I might try weldling across a vertical coupon in a couple months when I get halfway decent, but right now everything is done flat.

The goal is to practice on this bit of homemade angle until I fill it up.  Jody on weldingtipsandtricks.com mentioned padding beads for practice, and it sounded like an easy thing, so.....

Slag!  I keep thinking of the scale piling up around my anvil.

Glare off the inside of my hood is a problem.  I'm thinking about hot gluing a bandanna over the hood to fix that.  Or I could use some scrap leather I have.  That'd be hot, but it wouldn't burn through or snag like a bandanna will.  And I need to get a small fan to blow the smoke away.

Question--->>  On my machine there doesn't seem to be any way to adjust the volts.  Is that normal?  Jody talks about it like it's something to factor into the equation, but I can't figure out how to move the number.  When it was set for 125 amps, the volts were automatically set to 77.3 and flickered up as high as 77.5.  Is that just how this machine is designed or am I missing something?

[John McPherson]

While SMAW (MMA for you Brits) or stick welding, there are two levels of voltage. It order to get a hot start and not 'stick' the rod to the work, there is a high open circuit voltage, typically between 60 and 100 volts. Then, after you strike an arc and start to weld, the arc gap distance between the tip of the rod and the work determines your working voltage. The closer you can hold the arc, the lower the voltage, and more stable the arc. Plus, the puddle is cooler and less agitated. Counter-intuitive, I know.

[VaughnT]

Still having trouble with those blasted fingerprints.  No idea what's causing them so I can't really be proactive to prevent them.

7014 1/8" rod, 125 amps.  Any lower on the amps and I stick the rod a lot on the start.  Even at only 125 amps, I'm burning really deep into the metal, ruining the corners.  It seems like I'm going too fast, but the ripples look decent and the beads aren't too wide.  On this little job, I didn't do any zigzagging of the rod, just a straight drag with minimal angling of the rod.

 

[John McPherson]

Don't be too hard on yourself, it looks pretty darn good.

Gouging into the base metal under the bead is your depth of fusion: if there is no gouge and fill, you are glueing, soldering or brazing, not welding.

If a perfect bead from edge to edge is required*, then you can always add a sacrificial run-on and run-off tab at either end, and then grind them off when done.

*By the client, or by your own OCD.

[arftist]

Here is my spiel on welding rods.

Not all will agree with me.

Other than a few special purpose rods I do everything with two rod types; 6011 and 7018.

6010 requires more voltage and digs more (is less controllable IMHO)

1/8" 6011 can fill poor fit up, can handle some dirt rust and paint, has a large amperage range 60-100 with about 80 being ideal for most jobs.

It is a fast freeze rod and all position.

Not just a beginer's rod, I stock 1/8" and 3/32" on my portable rig since 1982.

Next is 7018. Again  1/8" is preferable in most cases.

All position, fast fill, low hydrogen, higher strength.

7018 is code required for structural welding.

Ideal for welding medium carbon steels  wirh preheat. 

7014 is not a direct replacement for 7018. It will run downhill. 

6013 is a clean metal sheetmetal fab rod. 

I would buy it if I were making a large steel tank from new thin sheetmetal and my MIG was out of service. I have no other use for it.

Same with 7024.  High speed rod does nothing flux core will not do better faster.  Like to weld flat only, requires mad amps. 

Cut to the chase; get good with 1/8" 6011 and 7018.

Keep a small quantiy of smaller  6011 to weld rhin stuff.

Forget about larger diameters.

You are not repairing dies in a factory.

Upside? You are showing marked improvement.

 

 

 

 

  

[Frosty]

Yeah, we could work out of each others rod cabinet without problem. Did we have the same teachers?

Frosty The Lucky.

[arftist]

19 hours ago, Frosty said:

Yeah, we could work out of each others rod cabinet without problem. Did we have the same teachers?

Frosty The Lucky.

Yes.

Old welders with many decades of experience.

[ironwolfforgeca]

also 6010 is a good rod to learn with Not easy to run & you must work it !!!

but if you can weld with it EVERY other rod is EASY to use !

[VaughnT]

My latest attempt at welding ----

1/8 7014 @ 110 amps.  Two passes were needed since the first barely got into the tight corner formed between the washer and tire iron.  The second pass looks halfway decent for about a third of the way, then turns into bubblegum just to make sure everyone knows I'm not a welder. 

I had everything clamped up in the bench vice to hold it, but I can't seem to figure out how to make my body bend around as I'm trying to lay down the bead.  It starts off decently, but the rod angle changes real quick because I forget to bend my wrist or elbow at the right speed......

 

Still, it's all solidly together and will get the job done.  I don't know that I'll ever use the little dishing cup, but it was fun to build.

[Charles R. Stevens]

A friend of mine passed on some advice from his grandfather, they are both special process weldors. "The difference between a good weld and a bad weld is a grinder" it's one of those multi faceted things, regarding weld prep, between pass cleanup and finish. Not to say that both theise characters don't lay down stick welds that look as good as my gas welds! 

I find that some times in a tight undercut instead of sweeping back and forth (or circling) pushing and pulling just a bit will get a bit cleaner base pass right in the corner that you can then clean up and lay a bead down that incorporates the two peices and the weld. Some times that transition will cause us backyard welders fits.

I second the use of a helmet cover (even a clean shop rag) and a light. 

And don't forget to replace the lense cover! Spatter and smoke will make it hard to see your work

[VaughnT]

Tried my hand at some vertical up last night.

It didn't go anything like what you see in the videos you see on the internet! 

Laying flat on the table wasn't so bad, but still far from what I'd like to see.

Both are with 1/8 7018 and the machine set at 125.

The vertical up is one 1/8" wall angle iron and 3/4" square bar.  

I was having a heck of a time with the rod sticking as I first tried to strike the arc.  Real bear of a time getting everything just right, and on the V-up, as soon as the arc got started halfway decent, the metal was running like a river.  I tried pointing the rod upwards to push the puddle ahead a bit, but, well, you can see how masterful my work came out.

I was kind of proud that I managed to make a right turn and continue the bead to the end. 

Aggravating no matter which direction I look at it.  But, I've got a grinder and some new disks that will get it looking halfway respectable.

 

 

[John McPherson]

Shops that take welding costs seriously know that the best quality work product and highest production rates come from doing all work in the easiest position possible: flat. Failing that, horizontal. Most of the really hot industrial processes only work in the flat and horizontal fillet positions. (SAW, GMAW Spray)

To that end, they will spend whatever it takes on welding positioners, turntables, hoists, cranes, chain falls, jigs, etc.

A new high end welding machine costs more than I paid for all three of the last used cars I bought.

No one is going to turn a high rise building or an Interstate bridge on its side, so you have to hire better welders, capable of vertical up and overhead work, and the job just takes longer, per linear foot of weld bead. Period.

Personal professional welding certs EXPIRE if not refreshed or proven to a reviewer every six months. Use it or lose it.

 

Moral of the story: don't beat yourself up for not being able to hold to an arbitrary standard as a self-taught, part-time, hobby welder. You are doing just fine.

My critique: grind a bevel on one or both elements before you weld, especially if you are going to grind it flush afterwards. Otherwise, you may find all the strength you put in is now on the floor in the shape of dust.

You have to hold a really tight arc interval when stick or TIG welding, equivalent to the diameter of the electrode. Doubling the arc length doubles the voltage. More voltage = hotter, runnier puddle.

What you should see is a solar eclipse around the flux with E7018. If it looks like a cherry on the end of a stick, you are long arcing.

[bubba682]

When you go to brake away with 7018 pause for a milly sec and go back a millimeter your break aways will look better less of a low thumb print and practice practice practice get good at one position then go to the next.Your flat is coming along the vert is a little harder you look a little to hot one heat does not work in every position.Keep practicen and asking ques  it'll come.

[arkie]

Vaughn, you'll find that most folks running 7018 uphill will use less amps than when running flat, horiz, or downhill.  Try something like running uphill beads increasing from 90 to 110 amps on your 1/8" rods in 5 amp increments and see how it works.  Not all welding machines weld the same and 125 amps on one machine might be higher or lower on another.

[BIGGUNDOCTOR]

With 7018 you can bump the rod against the plates since the flux is nonconductive. Like John mentioned earlier, keep the tip stuffed into the puddle so you have a short arc and just see the edge of it under the flux. Undercutting can be from moving too fast, and not allowing enough time for the base metal to heat up and allow the puddle to flow to the edge. Point the tip in the direction that you want the puddle to flow, then give it time to do so.

Just butting parts together isn't the best weld prep. Either grind a bevel for the puddle to fill, or sometimes I just leave a gap between the parts depending on the situation. 7018 is my go to rod. If it is laid down right the flux will peel off on its own, or it will only require a light bump to pop it off.

I can see improvement in your beads, keep it up.

Do you have any night welding classes at a community college? That is where I went and my welding improved tremendously in a very short time. It really helps having some right there watching over your shoulder.