angle grinder safety

[Frosty]

This is some good responds. Thanks. I am very aware of the dangers explained in the last few posts and i am very cautious when using a grinder. I am generally a cautious person as i consider anything i do twice before i do it especially when it has to do with extremely dangerous equipment such as the angle grinder. Once it got stuck somewhere while cutting and just slided out of my hands but thankfully it went towards the opposite direction rather than towards me. Since then i have been very cautious with it and go quite slow when cutting so it doesn't happen again. Added to that i generally stay out of the way of the sparks and handle the grinder with my attention to the maximum.  But in regard of your question Glenn, no i wasn't wearing a long sleeve shirt when it happened and the sparks went onto my hand so it felt like i had small fragments not seen by the eye, attached to my skin so it got all red and a bit itchy. But my question was if i might have some sort of allergy to it, or to any of the substances in the stone wheel. Or is it a common thing if one is grinding while the fragments come in contact with the skin? Does it happen to you as well if you are wearing short while grinding. One thing is for certain though. from now on i will be wearing a cotton shirt and when grinding i will roll the sleeves down as well as wear a leather apron so the shirt does not catch fire.  

​I don't know what grinding disks are made from where you are. Here in America they use phenolic resin impregnated fiberglass to make the disk and imbed the desired abrasives. General use grinding stones are usually silicon carbide "green" stones are for grinding tungsten carbide tools and I can't recall the abrasive but the matrix is a hard rubber. Blue stones use diamond abrasive.

What you describe sounds like a chemical reaction. Getting in the way of the cuttings of a grinder usually results in a burn and happens instantly. Sure if you get burned badly it will get worse without treatment but it's still a thermal burn.

What you're describing sounds to me like a chemical burn or irritation like fiberglass rash as Thomas mentions. You may be sensitive to the metal the abrasives or matrix in the grinding disks or wheels. If it always happens when you grind then I'd suspect the metal as you're using different grinders. A disk grinder will have a high temperature resin bonded fiberglass impregnated with the abrasive while the wheel is more akin to stone. I think it's unlikely you'd be sensitive to two different grinders. That leaves in my limited information and logic the metal as the irritant. Provided you're grinding the same metal.

What I don't get is it happening to your left hand and . . . nowhere else? All the disk grinders I have put your right hand in the way of the cuttings and my left hand is the part of my body the least in the line of fire.

That's just an educated guess. I'd suggest keeping out of the dust from the grinder as much as humanly possible. If it keeps up you might want to see a dermatologist. If you have a sensitivity to something involved in grinding it could get worse, maybe turn into an allergy.

Be careful, this could be serious.

Frosty The Lucky.

 

[santisandreas]

thanks a lot frosty. you are very accurate. yes my guess is a chemical reaction as well. i am sure it is not the metal because if it was, it would have happened very often since i am always using steel. i think it is most probably something from the grinding disk or the stone but i am not sure which one. when it happens again i will be 100% sure which one is it and then post it here to figure out what are the substances of that particular disk or stone and then try to use something else. I am now 80% sure that it is not the angle grinder disk because now that i stopped using the bench grinder the itchy effect has stopped and yesterday i was grinding with the angle grinder and nothing happened so i am guessing that it is from the new stone that i bought recently. i will do another test today and get back to you soon.   

[Frosty]

Do other people use your grinder? I know I used to shout myself hoarse trying to keep idiots from grinding weird stuff on the shop grinder. Folk without shop experience would come down from the office and grind crap from aluminum, brass, copper, wood, plastic and who knows what else. I finally welded up a lockable cover to keep them away from my tool sharpening grinder. I got called on the carpet for that but pointed out it was MY grinder, I brought it from home and told the boss to go pound sand. I also had to hide the wheel dressing tool, the idiots kept dressing the wheels to death for no good reason.

And no it wasn't my shop, it was the "drill" shop bought and supplied by my employer but seeing as I was the only one who actually knew how to do the work I THOUGHT I should have some say. My mistake.

Frosty The Lucky.

[arftist]

A sensitivity  to fiberglass particles is not unheard of. 

Unfortunately, once afflicted, the sensitivity generally increases with time. 

You must either stop working with the offending material or protect yourself sufficiently. 

Due to the progressive nature of the sensitivity, avoidance is the prefered choice. From the website of West System, a large long term resin manufacturer;

Allergic dermatitis is a more serious problem, but less than 2% of epoxy users are likely to get it. Allergic dermatitis is when the body hyperreacts to an allergen. Sensitization is the condition of being allergic to a substance. Your immune system and the degree and frequency of exposure to epoxy affects your chance of becoming sensitized. You are most susceptible if you have been grossly overexposed to epoxy or if you are inherently sensitized or allergic to a component of epoxy. You are also more susceptible if you have fair skin, if you’ve already been exposed to other sensitizing substances, or if you have hay fever, other allergies or are under stress.

You may become sensitized to epoxy after many exposures or just one. It could take ten days of exposure, a month, or even years. It is best to avoid all exposure because you cannot know ahead of time how much you can tolerate before you become allergic.

Allergic reactions to epoxy can result in irritated skin or respiratory problems. Irritated skin is by far the more common of the two. Usually, it appears much like a reaction to poison ivy and may include swelling, itching and red eyes. Just as with poison ivy, the irritation can be mild or severe, acute or chronic.

Inhaling concentrated epoxy vapors, if done frequently or for long periods, can irritate your respiratory tract. Exposing sensitive skin areas, like the eyelids, to highly concentrated epoxy vapors may cause itching and swelling.

See a physician if irritation persists or worsens after avoiding epoxy for several days. There is no specific antidote for epoxy sensitization, but symptoms can sometimes be treated with medicine.

Once sensitized, additional (and sometimes increasingly severe) reactions become likely upon future exposures, even to tiny amounts of epoxy. It is difficult, but not impossible to prevent recurrences. Resume epoxy use only after symptoms disappear, and strictly follow the recommended handling procedures to prevent exposure. Read the product’s material safety data sheets (MSDS) so you can identify symptoms and employ preventive and first aid measures.

[Frosty]

Agreed but he's having a reaction to the stone wheels, not disks.

Frosty The Lucky.

[arftist]

Agreed but he's having a reaction to the stone wheels, not disks.

Frosty The Lucky.

​OK, nevermind then. 

How are the stones bonded? 

[Frosty]

It's not a "nevermind" moment, what you say is exactly right it's just not glass that's the culprit. If he's actually developing a sensitivity/allergy.

This has me wondering if it's him that's sensitive or the manufacturer who shortcut with something nobody should get on them. Too many manufacturers have used sometimes frighteningly toxic substances. The Cadmium paint used on toys imported from China being a case in point.

I think, "How are the stones bonded," IS the question, unless maybe someone else is grinding something weird.

On the other hand I have sensitive skin, I develop low grade rashes if any brand laundry soap doesn't rinse completely. Heck, I itch for at least a day after a hair cut unless I take a shower immediately and put on clean clothes. It's the main reason I buzz my own head instead of going to a barber. I discovered I could avoid the irritation after I buzzed my head to support Deb's best friend who was undergoing Chemo. Chris lost her battle years ago but I still keep buzzed.

Frosty The Lucky.

[Wayne]

Using a wire cup on a 4 1/2 inch angle grinder back in march, the cup snatched jumped and chewed up my shirt. I still have the red marks across my stomach, I will not be using a cup brush again.............

[santisandreas]

hey thanks again. i am not 100% that its the the stone wheels but i think its them because they where low quality  as well. i think Chinese origin. i will take a picture of the wheel tomorrow and the grinding disk maybe someone can tell me what they have in them. with the Bosch wheels that were on the bench grinder originally i had no problem. but i will do a test tomorrow and let you know of my findings. it might be the epoxy as well. not really sure though. get back to you shortly. sorry for the late response.  

[santisandreas]

update: i think it is the angle grinder disks. i had a small reaction to them today.. my hand has some red spots and is a bit itchy but not so much as last time.. and it happened while using the dewalt cut off disk. yellow one. but i noticed that it gets itchy when the sparks touch another surface and then get back on my hand. left one mostly. i will resume testing and update soon enough. images of the grinding and cutoff disks..

[santisandreas]

hey everyone. firstly i want to thank the members that helped me figure out the issue with their advice. i have found that it it was the grinding wheel in the end that is causing the reaction to my skin, in combination with the heat that the sparks produce. i get the itchiness only when hot sparks come in contact with my left hand, which in general has developed a higher sensitivity than my right hand, exactly where the skin is softer. this will be countered in the future by wearing a long shirt while grinding so as to cut off the source of the problem. Frosty your advice has helped a lot since i have almost the same sensitivities as well. i too get itchy after a hair cut and i am in general an itchy person, (beard, head). maybe it is something in the bondage of the stones and if i could by any means find out what it is maybe i could find some other brand stones which do not contain that chemical so as to solve the problem.. is there any way i can test this? of course i will avoid it now by wearing long sleeves but i would prefer it if in some way i know what is causing the problem so as to buy something else, because believe me long sleeves is almost torture with the heat we have here. today for example is 32 celcious..   

[Glenn]

Using a wire cup on a 4 1/2 inch angle grinder back in march, the cup snatched jumped and chewed up my shirt. I still have the red marks across my stomach, I will not be using a cup brush again.............

​I have found that wire cups work well on FLAT surfaces where other wire wheels work better of curved surfaces. Both will grab if you feed into the cup or wheel. If you position your self or the work so the wire cup or wheel runs OFF the surface there is much less of a problem. Takes a little thought and placing the cup or wheel in the right place on the work. Small grinders are not so powerful that you can not man handle them to an extent, but the 7 and 9 inch tools can be dangerous. You must respect their power and realize the are looking for the opportunity to get you.

 

santisandreas

you do not have to wear long sleeved shirts. Cut the sleeve off and wear just the sleeve. If need be a rubber band will keep the top in place while you work.

[BIGGUNDOCTOR]

Face shields, and guards are used for a reason. This guy found out the hard way.

My Dad knew a guy in the Air Force that had a third of a bench grinding wheel  embed into his elbow. One third disintegrated, the final third was stuck in a roof beam quite aways up.

You need to watch out for any loose clothing around any rotating equipment as it can get entangled. I never wear gloves when using grinders of any kind.

[Frosty]

Oh GEEZE Guns I did NOT need to see that! Then again you didn't post it for me so I'll forgive you. It IS something new folk need to see. Thanks for not posting a "FatalGram" photo!

The only time I wear my leather apron is when I'm doing serious grinding with my 9" Milwaukee. I've had wheels break and hit me in the chest hard enough to knock me back a step but the leather stopped penetration.

This pic is a perfect example of why you stay OUT of the plane of rotation. You never, Never, NEVER want a view of the disk, blade, wheel, swung hammer, axe, etc. edge on. Visualize the water sprayed off a bicycle tire and where it goes, now envision pieces of SHARP blade or the project traveling in the same plane at a couple hundred miles an hour.

There is NO safe in the plane of rotation and don't forget hammers slip out of peoples hands all the time. Just don't be there, it's so much easier to sweep up the pieces or walk across the shop to pick up that project you were wire brushing than it is to have a surgeon remove it from your eye socket or jaw or . . .

Frosty The Lucky.

[Glenn]

On start up, let the tool run for a full minute or so while you stand clear if it comes apart. Grinders, chop saws, band saws, etc

Let the tool do the work, do not push it or put it in a bind. If you want it to be more aggressive, get a bigger tool. Moving from a 4-1/2 to a 7 or to a 9 inch tool is a large jump in the work being done. It also has a jump in the dangers involved. A 9 inch grinder can hog off (remove) a lot of metal real fast. It is not as convenient for getting into small places so do not force it. Let it do what it is good at doing and finish up with a 4-1/2 to get into the small places.

Let the tool to the work.

Edited June 14, 2015 by Glenn

[BIGGUNDOCTOR]

Sorry Frosty, but sometimes a graphic like this is more memorable, and helps to keep someone from becoming "that guy".

If ya look close you can see just how deep it is in his cheek. Almost to his ear.  I actually find pictures like this very interesting. The human body is pretty resilient in some incidents. 

 

[Michael Cochran]

I wasn't ready for that picture. Like you said it's somethin some of us need to see. I know I'll see it the next time I turn on of those on. I've caught myself looking down the blade and then I quickly pull my face away cause a chill and a visual much like that pops in my mind and I'd hate to have somethin like that happen and kill me and my wife or son find me dead because of my stupidity.

[Frosty]

One of the Alaska club members was found in his Utah shop with the knife blade he was wire brushing stuck through his heart. Gordon had decades of experience as a bladesmith and it only took one mistake.

Frosty The Lucky.

[Michael Cochran]

I've heard several stories like that about wire wheels. I won't even use wire unless I absolutely have to and even then I barely put any pressure to it. It takes a long time to get anything out of it but I'd rather take a few more minutes with it than have it take the workpiece out of my hand and deposit it at an unpredictable location.

[Frosty]

Safety wise, stay out of the plane or rotation and as Glenn says make sure the brush is always dragging off the edge NOT moving into one. For a visual which will cut you worse, sliding your finger down a sharp chisel and off the edge or moving your finger into the edge?

And yes a light pressure is not only safer but cuts the crud better. It's the ends of the wires that do the best work and pushing against them bends them over so contact is the sides of the bristles. Another example would be to lay a piece of wire on your finger and pull it across it, then stand the wire on end and move it across. A pencil is another good example. You get the idea yes?

Only just enough pressure to get the bristles into the texture and features. Brushing the work HOT is always more effective you just want to keep at it till it's cool below black.

ALL rotating tools are dangerous but wire brushes and buffs are about the most dangerous power tool in the shop.

Frosty The Lucky.

[yves]

When I bought horses to pull, the horses pulled not me. When I hire someone for a job, I let him do the job I hired him for.

In my woodshop, a student came from a school. I saw him putting his weight on a sander. I explained that if you buy a sander it is because you want the sander to sand. I do the same with my wire brushes, I let them brush. In fact listen to the motor of the grinder. It will slow down when you lean on the wire brush. Just let it roll. For zip blades, same thing, I let them do the cut.

[FRODO,]

do not wear brown jersey cotton gloves when using a grinder or drilling a hole.a burr can catch the cloth and wrap you up

pull your finger off before you can let go.

 

i had a finger sewed back on,  i know

[ThomasPowers]

Almost a pity I rather like the sound of ""Frodo the 9 fingered...

[santisandreas]

hello again, i found the picture to be graphic as well, but ok, that's reality. it made me be more carefull with the angle grinder in general. Good news is that i didn't have another episode of skin rush so i think it was just a one time event.. now i am working every day almost full time and i am happy to anounce that it didn't happen again. thanks for your advice on the matter. i apply most of them now whenever i can. 

One other thing that concerns me is a clicking sound coming from my shoulder whenever i raise the hammer high or work with more strength than average. i think it is the nerves passing from the joints and close to my right ear. i try to avoid it by working lighter and heating the metal at its maximum but i am still worried. it doesn't happen all the time though. just sometimes when i am working a lot on a daily basis. what are your thoughts on the matter? does anyone else have this? i am going to the gym to strengthen my muscles since it is now that i started working full time so as to be able to counter such problems in the future. on another note i am a thin person almost skinny. i would appresiate it if you could advise on this matter. Thanks for reading.!

[DSW]

When my shoulder "clicks" it usually means something is out of adjustment and it's time to see my Chiropractor. Not all Chiropractors do other joints though. Most just adjust backs. I'm lucky enough that mine will do all joints. Often a shoulder issue came from something else like over twisting my elbow or wrist and he needs to "reset" more than just my shoulder.